Re: Kier Starmer : Thu May 06, 2021 5:32 pm  

Wonder if he will resign after tonight's result in Hartlepool, momentum will want somebody more hard left making alienating tham even more from the working man

Re: Kier Starmer : Thu May 06, 2021 10:21 pm  

JONNYGIANT wrote:

Wonder if he will resign after tonight's result in Hartlepool, momentum will want somebody more hard left making alienating tham even more from the working man

Maybe Labour need a proper hard left, Marxist, Communist in charge? Anti-EU, pro-Brexit, pro-Brexit party, pro-Gilets jaune, condemnation of identity politics including LGBT ideology, opposition to Scottish independence. The hard left sound like a dream for these left-behind, working class heroes in post industrial wastelands. Although the anti-capitalism thing might not go down well. These poor, left behind folk don't half love their capitalism.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 6:30 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

Maybe Labour need a proper hard left, Marxist, Communist in charge? Anti-EU, pro-Brexit, pro-Brexit party, pro-Gilets jaune, condemnation of identity politics including LGBT ideology, opposition to Scottish independence. The hard left sound like a dream for these left-behind, working class heroes in post industrial wastelands. Although the anti-capitalism thing might not go down well. These poor, left behind folk don't half love their capitalism.

Maybe just somebody they can connect with ,you know somebody from outside the London centric bubble,somebody like Caroline flint who respected the brexit vote ,a Democrat if you like

[Mild Rover]

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 7:11 am  

The old working class that formed the bedrock of Labour support for decades no longer exists in the post-industrial age.

The Blairite social democratic wing now seems old fashioned and dull. It asked people to be better without offering many of them much in return.

The Corbynite hard left inspires passion but only in a very narrow constituency, and is alienating to many more.

The Johnson Tories have reframed themselves as the champions of those neglected by a long period of quasi-centrist politics. Labour either has to come up with something new (and I don’t know what it is) or hope that people eventually see through Johnson in a post-Brexit, post-pandemic political environment. It is a poop state of affairs for Labour, and I think they might just have to wait it out.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 7:16 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

The old working class that formed the bedrock of Labour support for decades no longer exists in the post-industrial age.

The Blairite social democratic wing now seems old fashioned and dull. It asked people to be better without offering many of them much in return.

The Corbynite hard left inspires passion but only in a very narrow constituency, and is alienating to many more.

The Johnson Tories have reframed themselves as the champions of those neglected by a long period of quasi-centrist politics. Labour either has to come up with something new (and I don’t know what it is) or hope that people eventually see through Johnson in a post-Brexit, post-pandemic political environment. It is a poop state of affairs for Labour, and I think they might just have to wait it out.

The only chance labour have got is the 2nd coming of new labour ,ousting momentum and reconnecting with the working man of which there are many and appealing to middle England again

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 7:29 am  

Plus your assumption that the old working class bedrock of support has gone is just wrong ,all the fa Tories, workshops and building sites are full of disgruntled labour voters who saw the last labour cabinet for what it was ,nobody who I spoke to who had been life long labour voted for them ,the vast majority voted Tory with a few that couldn't face the thought voted brexit party

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 7:41 am  

It's all culture war stuff now, rational arguments about policy don't cut it any more. Unfortunately for Labour that's what they were, relatively, good at.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 8:59 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

It's all culture war stuff now, rational arguments about policy don't cut it any more. Unfortunately for Labour that's what they were, relatively, good at.

It's not a culture war ,its about listening to the constituents,Mary Creagh being a fine example, opposed the brexit result, she knew better ,got voted out and blamed Jeremy Corbyn ,didn't take responsibility for her own action and words

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 9:12 am  

JONNYGIANT wrote:

It's not a culture war ,its about listening to the constituents,Mary Creagh being a fine example, opposed the brexit result, she knew better ,got voted out and blamed Jeremy Corbyn ,didn't take responsibility for her own action and words

You make my point perfectly: Brexit itself is peak culture war, that's the point. It's not about economics or making people's lives better, even the people voting leave don't think that's the case. It's about winning.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 9:15 am  

Imagine voting for a party who’d rather spend money on a poxy flat than feed hungry children, and whose leader openly said he’d let the bodies pile high, which he did. I hope Hartlepool gets whats coming to them in spades - more austerity.