Re: The USA : Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:52 pm  

Him wrote:

I think we have just as much to fear from a US led world as we do from a Russian or Chinese led world. It’s just the nature of the threat that’s different.
The US is the cause of millions of deaths around the world and even millions of Americans domestically with their healthcare and gun control policies. The US is also the cause of many countries internal issues with their continued meddling in countries elections, economies and societies just to further the US and it’s corporations interests.

The way forward is through the UN, however the US continually sidelines it when it’s not convenient.

Great post. Well said. Couldn’t have summed it up any better.

Regards

King James

Re: The USA : Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 am  

Him wrote:

I think we have just as much to fear from a US led world as we do from a Russian or Chinese led world. It’s just the nature of the threat that’s different.
The US is the cause of millions of deaths around the world and even millions of Americans domestically with their healthcare and gun control policies. The US is also the cause of many countries internal issues with their continued meddling in countries elections, economies and societies just to further the US and it’s corporations interests.

The way forward is through the UN, however the US continually sidelines it when it’s not convenient.

Thanks for the honest reply although I cannot agree with it. The world has basically been led by the USA since the end of WW 2 which amounts to roughly 70-80 years of no major world war...this is a very real and tangible accomplishment. If Russia or China would have been in charge we very well might not even be here to have this conversation. You are right the nature of the threat is different from them...and far more ominous! Be careful what you ask for...you just might get it.
The US has some of the best health care in the world and is at the Centre of technological advancements...their health care technologies have saved millions of lives and driven numerous improvements! They are also the number 1 charitable contributor to helping other nations and their policies have saved millions of lives....especially in the third world.

The US does meddle in the affairs of other countries but which major nation does not? Certainly the worst actor in terms of imperialism has been Great Britain. This is how humans behave, they are tribal and break themselves into nation states...one of whose objectives is the promotion of their state....it is the nature of the human being....to deny the tribal nature of the human is a fatal error which has led to the death of large numbers of people.

You can't be serious in you UN suggestions. They are a governments worst nightmare, a black hole where good money after bad is thrown to support 5 penny dictators and human right violators. Their internal structure is deeply flawed, especially in the Security Council (a nuclear backroom boys club). The UN has done some good work in the past but its failures far outweigh any positives....they would be a complete and utter disaster as a world government....anarchy and mass starvation being the end game.

That being said your ideas are well meaning and altruistic. We need hope. Don't look to China, Russia or the UN for that long lost feeling...and with this moron in charge of the USA you can no longer look there either.

The world need more Canada!

Re: The USA : Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:05 pm  

I would say the biggest contributor to there not being a major war has been the EU not the US. Though even that of course ignores the Korean War, the Vietnam War and the wars in the Gulf. They have continued their warlike stance since the end of the Second World War. Either through direct involvement such as Vietnam or through proxies such as Afghanistan/Iraq/Cuba etc. Their policy during the Second World War was to cripple Britain economically and their policy after the war was to cripple Russia. They succeeded in both.
Since the Second World War America has invaded or attacked the following countries either militarily or through covert means:
Korea
Vietnam
Guatemala
Iran
Cuba
Brazil
Chile
Grenada
Nicaragua
Libya
Panama
Honduras
Colombia
Iraq
Somalia
Sudan
Afghanistan
Serbia
Pakistan
Yemen

And I’m sure there are others that I can’t remember. That is not a policy of peace and goodwill. That is bully boy tactics when the rest of the world was recovering from the Second World War.

As for healthcare, I don’t care how good their private healthcare is. A third of their own country can’t afford it and die because of their healthcare policies. That is cruel and inhumane.

As for foreign aid spending China actually spends more than the US in total figures and so does the EU. And America is very low down the list when it comes to % of GNI spent on foreign aid. That puts them at 26th in the world alongside Malta and Estonia.

As for the UN, that is exactly where the UN can lead if it chooses to. The US is the main driver behind the UN organisations and can improve them if they wish.

I agree Britain did just as much meddling when we were the world superpower. That doesn’t make it right or necessary. If America wanted to lead the world it could do. It chooses not to.

Re: The USA : Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:49 pm  

Him wrote:

I would say the biggest contributor to there not being a major war has been the EU not the US. Though even that of course ignores the Korean War, the Vietnam War and the wars in the Gulf. They have continued their warlike stance since the end of the Second World War. Either through direct involvement such as Vietnam or through proxies such as Afghanistan/Iraq/Cuba etc. Their policy during the Second World War was to cripple Britain economically and their policy after the war was to cripple Russia. They succeeded in both.
Since the Second World War America has invaded or attacked the following countries either militarily or through covert means:
Korea
Vietnam
Guatemala
Iran
Cuba
Brazil
Chile
Grenada
Nicaragua
Libya
Panama
Honduras
Colombia
Iraq
Somalia
Sudan
Afghanistan
Serbia
Pakistan
Yemen

And I’m sure there are others that I can’t remember. That is not a policy of peace and goodwill. That is bully boy tactics when the rest of the world was recovering from the Second World War.

As for healthcare, I don’t care how good their private healthcare is. A third of their own country can’t afford it and die because of their healthcare policies. That is cruel and inhumane.

As for foreign aid spending China actually spends more than the US in total figures and so does the EU. And America is very low down the list when it comes to % of GNI spent on foreign aid. That puts them at 26th in the world alongside Malta and Estonia.

As for the UN, that is exactly where the UN can lead if it chooses to. The US is the main driver behind the UN organisations and can improve them if they wish.

I agree Britain did just as much meddling when we were the world superpower. That doesn’t make it right or necessary. If America wanted to lead the world it could do. It chooses not to.

You've gotta be kidding about the EU right...WOW...way off base on that one...a broken dream mired in red tape trying desperately not to devolve into another ethnic cleaning from time immortal....you've got to step back and see that Gordian Knot for what it is...the vision was commendable, the reality a self made disaster. That is the stark reality of the situation...your nation is even voting to leave!...if it is so great why would anyone want to leave??????

Lets be clear, the policy of the USA during the Second World War was to defeat the Axis powers: not Great Britain! This is a bizarre statement. Since that time the USA has led the free world and sometimes using force is necessary, as I posted earlier, war and violence are part of the general human psyche, irrelevant of country and/or culture.

I think that the people who have been saved by US healthcare might have a different opinion than yours. Either way it is up to a country to decide its health care policy....there are problems in all large health care paradigms....I believe your nation has some of the worst problems. Your model is certainly not to be emulated....a disaster according to many experts in the field...crumbling?

Your foreign aid figures are incorrect, and according to the UN, the USA overall is the largest contributor to that organization financially (by FAR!). You yourself admit in your post that the USA is the main driver of the UN.

Great Britain did FAR more meddling than the US when it was running the show....and for a much longer time frame too. The cries of what could have been for Africa still should haunt British halls of power.

Nobody should want a leaderless world...it will quickly decay into conflict, starvation and the four Horsemen will rule.

These are dark and dangerous times indeed.....Canada being one of the few beacons of light in an otherwise darkening landscape.

Re: The USA : Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:36 pm  

Canoeman. In like 150 years, ‘murica hasn’t been at war with someone for only 2 of them. Why do you think that is? Because war generates money for the corporations that actually run the USA. Next you will be telling me you believe the official narrative of 9/11

Regards

King James

Re: The USA : Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:39 pm  

The EU has indisputably brought the European nations closer together. Whatever it’s faults and they are many, it has reduced tensions between European countries and got them working together more.

The policy of the US in the Second World War was to come out of it as the only world superpower. It initially funded Germany and made money off the Nazis to begin with. It also forced Britain to sell its foreign reserves before it would lend Britain money or equipment in the War. Something it didn’t do to any other country. The reason for this was to weaken Britain’s economic power across the Empire and especially in the Middle East and Asia. The US wanted the dollar to become the international currency not the Pound.

The US hasn’t led the free world. It has cajoled and bullied it. I’ve given you a list of the countries it has attacked (plus others) since the Second World War. Can you tell me why, for instance, Vietnam or Nicaragua deserved to be invaded by the Americans? Can you give me any examples of it leading the free world magnanimously?

You give yourself away (as if you haven’t on any number of threads on the VT). Any true Canadian wouldn’t be defending the US healthcare system. It is indefensible to keep tens, if not hundreds of millions of people excluded from healthcare. The only problem the NHS is privatisation and underfunding. Otherwise it’s an excellent service that is consistently rated as the top healthcare system in the world in any number of criteria.

My figures come from the OECD. As I said, China and the EU give more than the US in absolute terms. Abs the US are approx 26th in the world in terms of #of GNI.

As for the UN that exactly backs up my point, the US can make the UN what they want it to be. If they wanted it to be a truly international body capable of helping resolving disputes and leading the world ten they could do. They choose not. That speaks volumes for their intentions.

Straw man argument. I’ve never defended Britain’s colonial history etc. I’m criticising the present and past US activities, not defending Britain.

Re: The USA : Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:05 am  

Lebron James wrote:

Canoeman. In like 150 years, ‘murica hasn’t been at war with someone for only 2 of them. Why do you think that is? Because war generates money for the corporations that actually run the USA. Next you will be telling me you believe the official narrative of 9/11

Regards

King James

You've got to quit talking to yourself like this!!!!!!

Re: The USA : Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:13 am  

Him wrote:

The EU has indisputably brought the European nations closer together. Whatever it’s faults and they are many, it has reduced tensions between European countries and got them working together more.

The policy of the US in the Second World War was to come out of it as the only world superpower. It initially funded Germany and made money off the Nazis to begin with. It also forced Britain to sell its foreign reserves before it would lend Britain money or equipment in the War. Something it didn’t do to any other country. The reason for this was to weaken Britain’s economic power across the Empire and especially in the Middle East and Asia. The US wanted the dollar to become the international currency not the Pound.

The US hasn’t led the free world. It has cajoled and bullied it. I’ve given you a list of the countries it has attacked (plus others) since the Second World War. Can you tell me why, for instance, Vietnam or Nicaragua deserved to be invaded by the Americans? Can you give me any examples of it leading the free world magnanimously?

You give yourself away (as if you haven’t on any number of threads on the VT). Any true Canadian wouldn’t be defending the US healthcare system. It is indefensible to keep tens, if not hundreds of millions of people excluded from healthcare. The only problem the NHS is privatisation and underfunding. Otherwise it’s an excellent service that is consistently rated as the top healthcare system in the world in any number of criteria.

My figures come from the OECD. As I said, China and the EU give more than the US in absolute terms. Abs the US are approx 26th in the world in terms of #of GNI.

As for the UN that exactly backs up my point, the US can make the UN what they want it to be. If they wanted it to be a truly international body capable of helping resolving disputes and leading the world ten they could do. They choose not. That speaks volumes for their intentions.

Straw man argument. I’ve never defended Britain’s colonial history etc. I’m criticising the present and past US activities, not defending Britain.

The EU has indisputably brought the European nations closer together. ----sure like in Bosnia and Brexit.
The policy of the US in the Second World War was to come out of it as the only world superpower.-----The policy was to come out of it as a nation period!
The US hasn’t led the free world.-----ever hear of NATO?
You give yourself away (as if you haven’t on any number of threads on the VT).----WHAT????? Delusional!
The only problem the NHS is privatisation and underfunding. -----that would be 2 problems now would it not?
I’m criticising the present and past US activities, not defending Britain.[/quote]----the crux of the argument really isn't it....everyones a critic, you must try to become more constructive in your criticisms (like Pliny The Elder!)

[Bullseye]

Re: The USA : Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:40 am  

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU at the time of the civil war. You could argue that the Serbs and Bosnian Serbs (backed by Serbia and Russia) were probably more culpable than anyone else in the whole thing. It was only the threat of Western European ground forces getting involved that ended the war.

The Balkans has been relatively quiet since the war ended. Not a bad effort.

Re: The USA : Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:25 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU at the time of the civil war. You could argue that the Serbs and Bosnian Serbs (backed by Serbia and Russia) were probably more culpable than anyone else in the whole thing. It was only the threat of Western European ground forces getting involved that ended the war.

The Balkans has been relatively quiet since the war ended. Not a bad effort.

It was the Canadians and Americans who had to step in and bring peace to the Balkans during this time....it was the Canadians and Americans that deserve the credit not the EU!!!!!! American and Canadian ground forces did not 'threaten' to get involved.....we did it!.... and saved the day by doing so!