Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:19 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Absolutely.


Mind, people believe every public service worker is lazy, couldn't find work elsewhere, are overpaid and so forth.

I believe a large number who sit in offices at places called names like "county hall" are exactly that. Not saying doctors are nor certain others, but in my opinion many back office people and a huge proportion of social workers are.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:16 pm  

Some people "believe" that there's a big man in the sky who sent his own son (also himself) down to Earth to be born to a virgin, be executed and then rise from the dead a few days later and from there, rise to heaven to join his father/himself and create a triumvirate.

That does not mean there is. Single, solitary shred of evidence for that belief.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:17 pm  

Mintball wrote:

That does not mean there is. Single, solitary shred of evidence for that belief.

How much evidence of public sector waste would you like, I've got about 15 years worth.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:24 pm  

Standee wrote:

How much evidence of public sector waste would you like, I've got about 15 years worth.

You have 15 years worth of evidence of public sector employees being lazy, overpaid and underworking?
Go on then.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:27 pm  

Him wrote:

You have 15 years worth of evidence of public sector employees being lazy, overpaid and underworking?
Go on then.

Where do you want me to start, Repairs operatives managing an average of 2 jobs a day, when I'd finished 4 of them had been moved on and the rest were averageing 8 jobs a day, or maybe rent and arrears staff in a team in Glasgow, running at roughly 17% of the HRA roll on arrears, after 12 months (and 7 sackings) the remaining staff were working at less than 7% with less than 1% of arrears cases owing more than 3 weeks rent.

What experience do you have to the contrary?

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:36 pm  

Standee wrote:

Where do you want me to start, Repairs operatives managing an average of 2 jobs a day, when I'd finished 4 of them had been moved on and the rest were averageing 8 jobs a day, or maybe rent and arrears staff in a team in Glasgow, running at roughly 17% of the HRA roll on arrears, after 12 months (and 7 sackings) the remaining staff were working at less than 7% with less than 1% of arrears cases owing more than 3 weeks rent.

What experience do you have to the contrary?

8 years working in the NHS with staff that have generally been underpaid, under-rewarded, under-resourced and under valued.

You also appear to be saying that the problems you experienced were fixed and staff became more efficient pretty quickly. Is this really your 15 years worth of evidence that public sector workers are lazy, overpaid and underworked?

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:42 pm  

Him wrote:

8 years working in the NHS with staff that have generally been underpaid, under-rewarded, under-resourced and under valued.

You also appear to be saying that the problems you experienced were fixed and staff became more efficient pretty quickly. Is this really your 15 years worth of evidence that public sector workers are lazy, overpaid and underworked?

thats a small sample of my experiences, staff become better when private sector practices are adopted and the union comfort blanket is removed. Out of interest, what's the sickness level in your team, and why are they under[aid, they could always leave and do something else.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 pm  

Standee wrote:

How much evidence of public sector waste would you like, I've got about 15 years worth.

An that is the unions fault?

Isn't it funny how the lazy car workers are now building some of the most profitable cars, the change? Management.

Workers will do what they can get away with, it is up to management to put controls in place.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:05 pm  

Standee wrote:

thats a small sample of my experiences, staff become better when private sector practices are adopted and the union comfort blanket is removed...

Where do we start with how stupid this is?

1) What sort of "private sector practices"? Zero hours rip off contracts? Untrained staff such as at Winterbourne?

Or do you mean more like the irresponsible, gambling banks? Or that non-union bastion of truth and virtue, News International?

Or the 'sack staff if they won't tell lies' variety of private employer that I've personally expended? Or just the incompetent ones who sack staff when they can't do the job themselves? Or the ones who get you to sign a contract - and then decide that you're out of order when you won't simply change the terms of that to increase their personal pay but not yours?

Do you means those sort of private sector practises, perchance?

Or the ones mentioned by more than one poster here, before now, who now put profit before service and pride in that service, and expect their employees to do the same? Is that the sort of utopia you're thinking of?

2) I hate to break it to you, but there are unionised private workplaces out there. More than one has been mentioned here. Like Vauxhall, where the atrocious union saved a couple of thousand jobs. Crummy, reprehensible behaviour, eh?

3) How do the Germans do it, eh?

Standee wrote:

... they could always leave and do something else.

Because there really are so many jobs going at present these days ...

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:15 pm  

Him wrote:

You have 15 years worth of evidence of public sector employees being lazy, overpaid and underworking?
Go on then.

I have! If you want to see the evidence we've got 15 years of files here to demonstrate that and their flagrant disregard for the law. If you are ever passing this way you are welcome to look at them. Otherwise, you may have to wait to see if Mrs D gets round to writing a book to name and shame the whole shower of them.