Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:34 pm  

Richie wrote:

But you do have a choice of a very large number of both manufacturers and sellers.

You'd be surprised how few manufacturers of washing machines and fridges there really are, many of the brands are owned by a few companies.

[DaveO]

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:27 pm  

Richie wrote:

I think that's a bit of a myth. I've had very few things fail. One washing machine at 20 years and the replacement has been going good for five. Perhaps one difference is we don't tend to repair stuff nowadays, but I expect my fridge to carry on, although it will more likely be replaced with one that warps food or something in a few years.

Bought a Pure DAB alarm radio/alarm clock a while back so hardly an antique being DAB. It's just packed in. It's basically a load of computer chips so WTF can go wrong with stuff like that?

Software is a good one as well. I use Adobe Lightroom for my photos and was quite happy running it on Windows XP. Latest version doesn't run on Windows XP. Have to upgrade to Windows 7 to get the new version. Things like that are all around and it isn't technology that drives it but profits.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:31 am  

Richie wrote:

Which means FA as a statement.
Everything fails after a certain point in time. I don't expect my TV to last a million years.
Very, very few items fail in an unreasonable timeframe.

What is "an unreasonable timeframe"?

I'm now on my third washing machine in 17 years. And I take enough care to invest in and use Calgon.

When I called a plumber out to the last one a few weeks ago, he was able to diagnose that the pump had packed in. It was an AEG – hardly a shabby make in the first place. But because it was designed to only open up in a rather complex fashion, he couldn't do anything about it.

So I was left with a choice: get an AEG specialist out to see if they could replace the pump – a job that, apparently, would have left me with a little change from £200, if I was lucky. This was a five-year-old machine. The plumber – who was making nothing from this advice (he didn't even charge a call-out fee) – went on to explain that he wouldn't even do such a big job on a machine of that age any longer, as there was absolutely no guarantee that it would extend the overall life of the machine to an extent that made such a job cost effective for the customer.

He said that even in the last 15 years he's seen a change in such machines – they're not as solidly made now and many parts that previously would have been metal, say, are now plastic.

So, in the event, we decided to invest that minimum £200 fee for a specialist into a new machine. But in all that time (and a few years more), my mother's sturdy machine hasn't failed. Indeed, that's only the second machine she's had in her entire married life of over 50 years.

And on what Big Graeme said – apparently AEG is actually owned by Zanussi (I think he said).

It's not just white goods, though. Take buildings: IIRC, the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff was built with a 30-year life in mind. The building I'm sitting in right now has a similar lifespan, apparently – although presumably that doesn't include the century-old listed bit that's been incorporated in the new building and totally renovated.

But this is bonkers.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:41 am  

Mintball wrote:

What is "an unreasonable timeframe"?

It varies by product.

Mintball wrote:

I'm now on my third washing machine in 17 years. And I take enough care to invest in and use Calgon.

When I called a plumber out to the last one a few weeks ago, he was able to diagnose that the pump had packed in. It was an AEG – hardly a shabby make in the first place. But because it was designed to only open up in a rather complex fashion, he couldn't do anything about it.

So I was left with a choice: get an AEG specialist out to see if they could replace the pump – a job that, apparently, would have left me with a little change from £200, if I was lucky. This was a five-year-old machine. The plumber – who was making nothing from this advice (he didn't even charge a call-out fee) – went on to explain that he wouldn't even do such a big job on a machine of that age any longer, as there was absolutely no guarantee that it would extend the overall life of the machine to an extent that made such a job cost effective for the customer.

He said that even in the last 15 years he's seen a change in such machines – they're not as solidly made now and many parts that previously would have been metal, say, are now plastic.

So, in the event, we decided to invest that minimum £200 fee for a specialist into a new machine. But in all that time (and a few years more), my mother's sturdy machine hasn't failed. Indeed, that's only the second machine she's had in her entire married life of over 50 years.

And on what Big Graeme said – apparently AEG is actually owned by Zanussi (I think he said).

The fact that you have had some bad luck with washing machines does not mean "everything fails" or that manufacturers are designing items to fail or manufacturers are ripping you off.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:46 am  

Mintball wrote: Take buildings: IIRC, the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff was built with a 30-year life in mind. The building I'm sitting in right now has a similar lifespan, apparently – although presumably that doesn't include the century-old listed bit that's been incorporated in the new building and totally renovated. But this is bonkers. The only reference I can find to a lifespan of the Millenium Stadium is this http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynatio ... _page.html referring to a problem with some of the concrete. However, in a country known for keeping dilapidated stadia in use for far too long, perhaps a planned intention to maintain a schedule of updating or replacing it's sports stadia is no bad thing.

Mintball wrote: Take buildings: IIRC, the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff was built with a 30-year life in mind. The building I'm sitting in right now has a similar lifespan, apparently – although presumably that doesn't include the century-old listed bit that's been incorporated in the new building and totally renovated. But this is bonkers. The only reference I can find to a lifespan of the Millenium Stadium is this http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynatio ... _page.html referring to a problem with some of the concrete. However, in a country known for keeping dilapidated stadia in use for far too long, perhaps a planned intention to maintain a schedule of updating or replacing it's sports stadia is no bad thing.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:46 am  

Mintball wrote:

It's not just white goods, though. Take buildings: IIRC, the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff was built with a 30-year life in mind. The building I'm sitting in right now has a similar lifespan, apparently – although presumably that doesn't include the century-old listed bit that's been incorporated in the new building and totally renovated.

When I entered the workforce at 17 years of age it was into the building sector, electrical contracting to be exact.

38 years later I would naturally expect those electrical installations that I first worked on to have been renewed by now, but I'm actually seeing the buildings themselves being demolished, not renovated, actually flattened and replaced

Madness.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:47 am  

DaveO wrote:

Software is a good one as well. I use Adobe Lightroom for my photos and was quite happy running it on Windows XP. Latest version doesn't run on Windows XP. Have to upgrade to Windows 7 to get the new version. Things like that are all around and it isn't technology that drives it but profits.

Why don't you just continue to use the earlier version of Lightroom?

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:11 am  

Mintball wrote:

What is "an unreasonable timeframe"?

I'm now on my third washing machine in 17 years. And I take enough care to invest in and use Calgon.

<snip>

Her's a tip.

Don't waste your money on Calgon, put the cash in a jar and use it to buy your next washing machine, I bet you'll still have some change left.

I've lived in hard water areas all my life, Hull, Staffs & Somerset are all noted for very hard water and have never suffered a failure to any machine that could be attributed to limescale

[Kosh]

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:46 am  

DaveO wrote:

Bought a Pure DAB alarm radio/alarm clock a while back so hardly an antique being DAB. It's just packed in. It's basically a load of computer chips so WTF can go wrong with stuff like that?

Well chips fail for starters. Plus there will be other components in there that aren't semiconductors that are capable of failure. Entropy always wins.

DaveO wrote:

Software is a good one as well. I use Adobe Lightroom for my photos and was quite happy running it on Windows XP. Latest version doesn't run on Windows XP. Have to upgrade to Windows 7 to get the new version. Things like that are all around and it isn't technology that drives it but profits.

Do you need the new version? What does it do that your current version doesn't and that's essential for you?

Building in backwards compatibility isn't always possible.

Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy? : Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:56 am  

Makes me laugh, though, you go into Sonic or wherever and there's a choice of a hundred washing machines. Even the cheapest will do a job for you and will be guaranteed for at least a year, but surely everyone understands the concept of you get what you pay for?

How do you think a manufacturer makes a washing machine with superficially comparable features and looks to on three or four time or more the price? Perhaps, just perhaps, compromising on build quality / cheaper materials? is this a shock?

Extended guarantees are a real rip off, but if you want your kit to be "guaranteed" for the indefinite future you have that option too.

Solid state electronic items that don't take the physical stick tend to be very long lived, in my experience. Can't remember the last time we bought a telly, for example, that wasn't working perfectly adequately many, many years later.

it's not so much "planned" obscolescence, as simply working to a price.