Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:42 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Yesterday Abbott says Ken Clarke said he couldn't vote Tory - he never did. McDonald said Austin was employed by the Tories - no he wasn't. They said workers rights would get worse - their is no evidence whatsoever to support that. They said America would privatise the NHS again there is no evidence whatsoever of that. This campaign Labour have time and again said you can't believe a word the Tories say - it seems telling lies is comes very easy to the senior Labour figures.

To say the Tories are running a very negative campaign is maybe true but you can hardly say Labour are holding the higher moral ground?

Labour's spend spree is now £400bn (£150bn from yesterday and £250bn green initiative) and that is before they purchase RM, all the utility companies and the rail franchises. On top of that there will be a national bank, national generic drug manufacturer etc. Its madness - it lacks any kind of credibility.

Come on Sal, your beloved leader started his campaign with a lie "I didn't want a GE", I mean, really ?? really ??
After sacrificing his majority, by sacking 21 of his own MP's and then chucking the DUP vote in the bin with his N.Ireland "solution".
He was DESPERATE for an election and just like Mrs "strong and stable" May, he believes that he deserves a huge majority.

For the party so keen on fixed term elections that they passed a law to try and ensure that we no longer had snap elections, The Tories have now had 3 elections and 3 leaders in 3 years

Corbyn's plans of re nationalising the "utilities" are scary, no doubt about it but Johnson struggles to speak, without spouting lies upon lies.
Of course, the right wing press still think he's great but, the reality is that, he is (still) an absolute loose cannon, driven by the right of the party and his over inflated ego.
How do you know that Johnson is telling lies............................................his lips move

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:35 pm  

There is interesting bonfire of the centrists going on at the moment - in both parties; the Tories and Labour are moving to more extreme positions, one to the right and one to the left, and it seems a lot of MP's who would label themselves as moderate, are jumping ship as a result. The Tories had their big clear-out, and others have dribbled away since, and it seems likely that more Labour MP's could follow, as they saw Tom Watson as the last bulwark against Corbynism.

My fear is that many of them could wait until after the election to do so - to keep their place on the gravy train; not caring of course that they effectively steal the time and effort of activists and campaigners, and the democratic vote of their constituents. But since the precedent set for that by the Funny Tinge crew, it seems that some career MP's have no shame in that respect. For my money, crossing the floor should trigger an automatic by-election.

I don't count John Mann or Ian Austin by the way - a pair of more odious twerps you are never likely to find; they will be a stain on any party they care to join.

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:45 pm  

bren2k wrote:

There is interesting bonfire of the centrists going on at the moment - in both parties; the Tories and Labour are moving to more extreme positions, one to the right and one to the left, and it seems a lot of MP's who would label themselves as moderate, are jumping ship as a result. The Tories had their big clear-out, and others have dribbled away since, and it seems likely that more Labour MP's could follow, as they saw Tom Watson as the last bulwark against Corbynism.

My fear is that many of them could wait until after the election to do so - to keep their place on the gravy train; not caring of course that they effectively steal the time and effort of activists and campaigners, and the democratic vote vote of their constituents. But since the precedent set for that by the Funny Tinge crew, it seems that some career MP's have no shame in that respect. For my money, crossing the floor should trigger an automatic by-election.

I don't count John Mann or Ian Austin by the way - a pair of more odious twerps you are never likely to find; they will be a stain on any party they care to join.

Like they did by voting down the referendum result, you mean?

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:02 pm  

Cronus wrote:

Not quite what he said though, is it?

“The more one’s read over the weekend about the report about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen.”

He's very clearly stating that having read the report (benefit of hindsight) it is his conclusion that you are safer ignoring official advice and using what to most of us would be common sense - to leave a burning building as fast as you can. Sadly the fire brigade had little idea the cladding was fuelling the fire and the usual policy led to so many deaths.

It's a valiant attempt to defend the indefensible, but the part in bold kills your explanation; if he'd said it without that part, it would have been factually wrong, as you've said, but devoid of the insensitive and insulting insinuation that it ended up being. Andrew Bridgen of course, just made it worse.

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:05 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Come on Sal, your beloved leader started his campaign with a lie "I didn't want a GE", I mean, really ?? really ??
After sacrificing his majority, by sacking 21 of his own MP's and then chucking the DUP vote in the bin with his N.Ireland "solution".
He was DESPERATE for an election and just like Mrs "strong and stable" May, he believes that he deserves a huge majority.

For the party so keen on fixed term elections that they passed a law to try and ensure that we no longer had snap elections, The Tories have now had 3 elections and 3 leaders in 3 years

Corbyn's plans of re nationalising the "utilities" are scary, no doubt about it but Johnson struggles to speak, without spouting lies upon lies.
Of course, the right wing press still think he's great but, the reality is that, he is (still) an absolute loose cannon, driven by the right of the party and his over inflated ego.
How do you know that Johnson is telling lies............................................his lips move

I'm sure Boris doesn't want at GE - its a huge risk - May showed what can happen when a campaign is well managed and you hardly say the Tories are up and running. Johnson didn't have a majority before he sacked the 21 - something I totally agree with. Parliament took away his negotiating strength by taking no deal off the table and as a result you end up with the best of a bad job. May showed you couldn't get a deal through with a back stop and all its ramifications so what can he do? Labour's policy is offering two versions of remain and hope the deal is so bad we vote to remain.

Tory problems come from the incompetence of May - and we had to have an election because the Government couldn't govern so whilst a fixed term Parliament would be great in theory in practise it wasn't sustainable.

I agree about Boris - a big disappointment to me but your point about lips moving can equally be applied to McDonald who is becoming a liability - by his own admission a Marxist this fantasist trait is becoming increasingly alarming as the campaign goes on - you simply cannot believe a word he says.

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:07 pm  

bren2k wrote:

There is interesting bonfire of the centrists going on at the moment - in both parties; the Tories and Labour are moving to more extreme positions, one to the right and one to the left, and it seems a lot of MP's who would label themselves as moderate, are jumping ship as a result. The Tories had their big clear-out, and others have dribbled away since, and it seems likely that more Labour MP's could follow, as they saw Tom Watson as the last bulwark against Corbynism.

My fear is that many of them could wait until after the election to do so - to keep their place on the gravy train; not caring of course that they effectively steal the time and effort of activists and campaigners, and the democratic vote of their constituents. But since the precedent set for that by the Funny Tinge crew, it seems that some career MP's have no shame in that respect. For my money, crossing the floor should trigger an automatic by-election.

I don't count John Mann or Ian Austin by the way - a pair of more odious twerps you are never likely to find; they will be a stain on any party they care to join.

All good points well made

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:57 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Like they did by voting down the referendum result, you mean?

You seem upset that the opposition opposed the deal patched together by the Tories but, quite accepting of those Tories who also opposed Jonnson's (and Mays) deal.
In fact, Johnson who wants everyone to endorse his version of Brexit, was himself happy to be a "traitor" when it suited him.

The big question is whether those voting against his deal were scuppering that deal or deliberately trying to scupper Brexit.

What would be interesting (if it becomes possible) would be to see just how may Tories support a Labour version of Brexit - fancy having a guess and then we can remind you later.

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:07 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Like they did by voting down the referendum result, you mean?

Ironically, it would have passed if the ERG hard Brexit fundamentalists had voted for it; funny old world isn't it?

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:22 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You seem upset that the opposition opposed the deal patched together by the Tories but, quite accepting of those Tories who also opposed Jonnson's (and Mays) deal.
In fact, Johnson who wants everyone to endorse his version of Brexit, was himself happy to be a "traitor" when it suited him.

The big question is whether those voting against his deal were scuppering that deal or deliberately trying to scupper Brexit.

What would be interesting (if it becomes possible) would be to see just how may Tories support a Labour version of Brexit - fancy having a guess and then we can remind you later.

Anybody who is a remainer - the two things will be the same

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:27 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Ironically, it would have passed if the ERG hard Brexit fundamentalists had voted for it; funny old world isn't it?

Nothing surprises me from our "political elite"!