Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:54 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Various posted have touched on the issue of the long-term unemployed and work experience etc – but we've moved on from that.

So let's change the discussion a little – if the world we now live in is this dog-eat-dog situation, where the majority struggle to keep their heads above water, with no security in life of job or home etc, then a number of questions arise:

1) how did this become the case;

2) is it inevitable;

3) if it is, what sort of society do we expect from that;

4) if it isn't, how do we change it – and what to?

the thing is Mintbal, the majority don't struggle, or at least didn't until they went out and got interest only mortgages for houses they couldn't afford, the banks were irresponsible for offering it, the government (of both colours) were irresponsible for allowing it to happen, but ultimately, the individuals concerned went out and took those offers up.

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:55 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Various posted have touched on the issue of the long-term unemployed and work experience etc – but we've moved on from that.

So let's change the discussion a little – if the world we now live in is this dog-eat-dog situation, where the majority struggle to keep their heads above water, with no security in life of job or home etc, then a number of questions arise:

1) how did this become the case;

2) is it inevitable;

3) if it is, what sort of society do we expect from that;

4) if it isn't, how do we change it – and what to?

1. The failure of the political classes to move on and think afresh. Especially Labour so far as the UK is concerned.

2. Not in the short-term but probably in the long-run.

3. A more authoritarian one. As we've already seen, as soon as the economy takes a dip the governments in the so called democracies crack down on their citizens. Even the illusion of democracy is dimming in the EU.

4. Standing up and being counted.

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:57 pm  

Standee wrote:

in your opinion, which is worth two fifths of sod all to me, but maybe worth a whole lot to someone else.

it's how opinions work, or maybe you're not capabale of having a difference of opinion without it becoming personal

Personal?

Your a fooking pro at it.
From 'Fubars' hair, to his clothes, to his speech.

Your just a horrible little ncut.
Were you born like it or was it taught?

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:58 pm  

Standee wrote:

the thing is Mintbal, the majority don't struggle, or at least didn't until they went out and got interest only mortgages for houses they couldn't afford, the banks were irresponsible for offering it, the government (of both colours) were irresponsible for allowing it to happen, but ultimately, the individuals concerned went out and took those offers up.

Erm not all of us did we could have borrowed 80k we borrowed 40k with 10% down (See I didnt just have kids on a whim).
That wide brush biting you on the anus again I see.
I see you are still avoiding Rock Gods numbers like the clap.
I wonder why?

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:01 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Erm not all of us did we could have borrowed 80k we borrowed 40k with 10% down.
That wide brush biting you on the anus again I see.
I see you are still avoiding Rock Gods numbers like the clap.
I wonder why?

this isn't about you, it's a conversation/discussion about the wider issues.

and as for Rock God's numbers, it's a clarification of the situation, SOME people would rather sit at home and do nothing than end up with a net £50 gain.

is that because wages are too low, or benefits are too high?

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:01 pm  

Standee wrote:

the thing is Mintbal, the majority don't struggle, or at least didn't until they went out and got interest only mortgages for houses they couldn't afford,

So the majority of people who are struggling are those who took out interest only mortgages on houses they couldn't afford? More than 50 percent of people in financial difficulties in this country fall into that category?

Still, I suppose it's nowt that can't be rectified by them taking a job miles away from home and at a loss.

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:03 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

So the majority of people who are struggling are those who took out interest only mortgages on houses they couldn't afford? More than 50 percent of people in financial difficulties in this country fall into that category?

Still, I suppose it's nowt that can't be rectified by them taking a job miles away from home and at a loss.

not just interest only mortgages, credit in general, people are, on the whole, in way too much debt.

I like the way you simplify things to try and build and argument, you'd do really well on The Cube.

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:05 pm  

Standee wrote:

this isn't about you, it's a conversation/discussion about the wider issues.

Funny you didn't say that when your insults were flying around eh!

Standee wrote:

and as for Rock God's numbers, it's a clarification of the situation, SOME people would rather sit at home and do nothing than end up with a net £50 gain.

It is more an indication that you are removed from reality.

Standee wrote:

is that because wages are too low, or benefits are too high?

It is neither.
It is that folks live in the real world unlike you.

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:05 pm  

Standee wrote:

and as for Rock God's numbers, it's a clarification of the situation, SOME people would rather sit at home and do nothing than end up with a net £50 gain.

is that because wages are too low, or benefits are too high?

That's a £50 net income, not a net gain. It's actually less than being on JSA. So, I ask again, do you think it reasonable that a man should have to work for 40 hours and not see his family all week, for an income lower than he would get on JSA?

And what about if he needed full time child care and it ended up costing him money to go to work? Should he have to do that too?

Re: State Sponsored Slavery : Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:06 pm  

Dally wrote: 3. A more authoritarian one. As we've already seen, as soon as the economy takes a dip the governments in the so called democracies crack down on their citizens. Even the illusion of democracy is dimming in the EU. Like the Goldman Sachs model for Europe?

Dally wrote: 3. A more authoritarian one. As we've already seen, as soon as the economy takes a dip the governments in the so called democracies crack down on their citizens. Even the illusion of democracy is dimming in the EU. Like the Goldman Sachs model for Europe?