Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:01 am  

kirkstaller wrote: I attend a Baptist Church in the Leeds area. Westboro?

kirkstaller wrote: I attend a Baptist Church in the Leeds area. Westboro?

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:22 am  

G1 wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me that when debating with people who hold a certain faith or religion normally reasonable and intelligent people who do not share that faith display such anger and bile.

I have to say I disagree entirely with Kirkstaller but like to think I could articulate my responses better than descending to calling him "human garbage" or such like.

Normally reasoned intelligent posters have let themselves down badly on this thread.

I can only speak for myself here, but I have no qualms whatsoever about calling someone a sanctimonious, heartless little shit when they appear to revel in the 'natural' death of a poor sod who spent the last 7 years trapped in a horrific situation which none of us can even contemplate - a situation the little shit in question would have happily seen extended indefinitely. No qualms at all. This isn't 'faith' we're talking about, it's batshit mental, vindictive bigotry.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:36 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

He started it by insisting that I (and of course you) are definitely doomed to rot in hell. And he knows. (Well, he's personally met jesus, so he should). Given what he believes hell to be, what has anyone said which is more bilious a slur than that?

He can think what he likes about me. He might be right about where I am headed

I just gauge a very aggressive response whenever someone openly displays their faith from those who don't share those views.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:53 pm  

ryano wrote: Westboro? No, mine is a an Evangelical church. We are not Hyper-Calvinists like the WBC. To the layman this means that I am genuinely interested in spreading the Gospel and persuading people to choose Jesus. WBC on the other hand believe that they belong to tiny handful of people who will be saved and that everyone else is doomed to Hell whether they like it or not. They don’t spread the Gospel; instead they revel, gloat and abuse those who they consider not worthy of God. They are vile. stouffer wrote: I can only speak for myself here, but I have no qualms whatsoever about calling someone a sanctimonious, heartless little shit when they appear to revel in the 'natural' death of a poor sod who spent the last 7 years trapped in a horrific situation which none of us can even contemplate - a situation the little shit in question would have happily seen extended indefinitely. No qualms at all. This isn't 'faith' we're talking about, it's batshit mental, vindictive bigotry. I did not revel in the natural death of Tony Nicklinson. I simply stated that it was a more dignified way to go out than persuading a doctor to murder him. I might not have expressed it as sensitively as I would have liked, but I make no apologies for the point I was making.

ryano wrote: Westboro? No, mine is a an Evangelical church. We are not Hyper-Calvinists like the WBC. To the layman this means that I am genuinely interested in spreading the Gospel and persuading people to choose Jesus. WBC on the other hand believe that they belong to tiny handful of people who will be saved and that everyone else is doomed to Hell whether they like it or not. They don’t spread the Gospel; instead they revel, gloat and abuse those who they consider not worthy of God. They are vile. stouffer wrote: I can only speak for myself here, but I have no qualms whatsoever about calling someone a sanctimonious, heartless little shit when they appear to revel in the 'natural' death of a poor sod who spent the last 7 years trapped in a horrific situation which none of us can even contemplate - a situation the little shit in question would have happily seen extended indefinitely. No qualms at all. This isn't 'faith' we're talking about, it's batshit mental, vindictive bigotry. I did not revel in the natural death of Tony Nicklinson. I simply stated that it was a more dignified way to go out than persuading a doctor to murder him. I might not have expressed it as sensitively as I would have liked, but I make no apologies for the point I was making.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:56 pm  

G1 wrote:

He can think what he likes about me. He might be right about where I am headed

I just gauge a very aggressive response whenever someone openly displays their faith from those who don't share those views.

You mean people with a strong faith like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ayatollah Khomeini, the Thugees, Kirkstaller???

Think extremist everywhere seek an aggressive response.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:02 pm  

G1 wrote:

He can think what he likes about me. He might be right about where I am headed

I just gauge a very aggressive response whenever someone openly displays their faith from those who don't share those views.

I think it's the shoving of views down others throats, the claim to indisputably be right, and the sheer arrogance of the man that winds people up, I'd be perfectly happy to debate any religion issue in a civilised manner like any other topic, but you can't with a man who claims to have personally met JC, and who insists that (apart from him, natch) we will all burn in hell, newborn babies are sinners deserving of punishment by disease and death, women are unfit to teach men, etc.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 pm  

Ovavoo wrote:

You mean people with a strong faith like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ayatollah Khomeini, the Thugees, Kirkstaller???

Think extremist everywhere seek an aggressive response.

probably the silliest post ever - don't go comparing him/her to Pol Pot et al FFS !

KS isn't particularly 'extreme' just someone who possesses strong convictions the principal one being that total committment to christ will bring forgiveness and salvation - failure to respect the teachings of Christ will not save your soul - ok, the way i'm going my soul will rot in hell, so be it - that's my choice, though I can be saved if I go back to believing in God etc

you can either agree with KS or not - that's your right thanks to us living in an environment where freedom of speech and thought prevails, hence this forum

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:31 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

I did not revel in the natural death of Tony Nicklinson. I simply stated that it was a more dignified way to go out than persuading a doctor to murder him. I might not have expressed it as sensitively as I would have liked, but I make no apologies for the point I was making.

Dignified must mean something different where you live because I can't see anything at all dignified about a poor man being effectively forced to refuse treatment for pneumonia and starve himself to death to escape his nightmare.

I can't for the life of me understand what is the least bit Christian about denying a human being the relief from an existence when we would brand someone as cruel and inhumane for doing the same to a cat or a dog.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:45 pm  

Kirkstaller, you believe that god created adam and eve knowing full well that they and every single one of their ancestors would fail to live in accordance with the laws he created. Then because they failed to live up to his laws (as he 100% knew would happen) they would have to be punished (for eternity). Have i got you're views right?

1) If so, why didnt he create humans intelligent enough to be able to see the big picture such that at least 1 person in the entire history of the human race would be able to live up to his laws?

--------

God apparently either inspired the authors of the bible or actuaclly wrote it himself, in doing so he knew for a fact that (according to you) the majority of the people who read the bible would fundamentally misunderstand enough of it that they would be doomed to eternal punishment.

2) Why didnt he write it (or ensure it was written in such a way) that it wasn't misunderstood by the vast majority of the people who read it? Was he unable to? Or was he not concerned enough about human suffering to bother to do so?
p.s. you cant blame this on humans being intrisically too unintelligent to understand it, because you believe you understood it well enough to ensure passage to heaven.

---------

3)

kirkstaller wrote:

We will never be able to fully understand God and His ways.

a) Do you thus accept it is possible that you are in some instances mistaken about god's intentions and god's will and thus about some of the assertions you make about god?
b) If you do not accept a) then do you agree that you can no longer use the 'argument' stated in 3) because you obviously feel capable of understanding with 100% certainty the wishes of god.
c) If you do accept a), do you also accept that maybe god approves of euthanasia in cases such as Tony Nicklinson?

Kirstaller, i know you are being asked a lot of question in this thread, but can you please try to answer these fairly simple questions for me. If you're busy at least answer 3 as it is on topic.

Re: The right to die : Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:04 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

No, mine is a an Evangelical church. We are Arminian, not Hyper-Calvinists like the WBC.

To the layman this means that I am genuinely interested in spreading the Gospel and persuading people to choose Jesus, as I believe our final resting place is in our own hands.

WBC on the other hand believe that they belong to tiny handful of people who will be saved and that everyone else is doomed to Hell whether they like it or not. They don’t spread the Gospel; instead they revel, gloat and abuse those who they consider not worthy of God.

They are vile.

Why does a god with a master plan allow so many different versions of Faith ?

Not just slightly different, but polar opposite different, so different that some of them don't even follow the same god ?

I'll say it again, its a rubbish master plan if he's relying on individuals like you to do his selling, why doesn't he just enter everyones life like he did yours and then we'd all buy the goods ?