Re: Education, education, education and war : Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:45 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Absolutely agree regarding exams, even if it had meant moving them back (a little).
You may be right about the outbreaks but, I'm not privy to the precise information so, wouldn't want to make those generalisations.

As for the R number, your wrong.

It has been increasing (slightly) over the last couple of months and is currently said to be between 0.9 and 1.1.
We are right on the line, hence my comments about how quickly the tap is being turned on.

For me, it's better to give schools those couple of weeks and try to ensure that more areas dont have further restrictions put upon them, than it is to have a mass return to work, school, eating out etc all at the same time.
If everything remains ok, then turn the tap a little more.
I would have thought that "we" would want the virus as much under control as possible as we move into the winter months.

We have been at this level of R number for several months - I agree with your sentiment of trying to control the virus - but we cannot continue to trash the economy forever - the consequences would be far worse than anything the virus will do

Re: Education, education, education and war : Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:47 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We have been at this level of R number for several months - I agree with your sentiment of trying to control the virus - but we cannot continue to trash the economy forever - the consequences would be far worse than anything the virus will do

No we havent.
Before restrictions were eased, the rate was 0.7 - 0.9 and it's now 0.9 - 1.1.
With a rate of 1 being the tipping point for local lockdowns, some areas are right on the cusp, including Wakefield where I live.

I sure as hell dont want any additional restrictions on movement, therefore, some caution would be wise.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Education, education, education and war : Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:05 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We have been at this level of R number for several months - I agree with your sentiment of trying to control the virus - but we cannot continue to trash the economy forever - the consequences would be far worse than anything the virus will do

Get you, with your scaredy cat project fear talk. Always with the doom and gloom.

We just need to hold our nerve and stay at home watching Netflix in our pyjamas - once the economy sees we’re not going to give in to its unreasonable demands for productivity, it’ll have back to back down. While poverty and eventual starvation will be bad for us, it’ll be just as bad for the economy.

Re: Education, education, education and war : Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:00 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

No we havent.
Before restrictions were eased, the rate was 0.7 - 0.9 and it's now 0.9 - 1.1.
With a rate of 1 being the tipping point for local lockdowns, some areas are right on the cusp, including Wakefield where I live.

I sure as hell dont want any additional restrictions on movement, therefore, some caution would be wise.

So if you take the margin of error it could have been closer to .9 than point .7 and it still could be closer to .9 than 1.1 - it is not as if it has been down at .3, .5 - so yes it has been at similar levels for months.

Even the government accept the R is a very blunt tool and the overall number can be influence by high levels in certain areas. So because you have issues in Wakefield everyone should have increased restrictions? Perhaps a greater understanding why it is happening in Wakefield would be far more useful and a policy adapted to deal with it e.g. Glasgow than blanket impact everyone?

You are typical of what is going on in this country - running scared of something that impacts so few people - deaths are virtually nil - complete overreaction

Re: Education, education, education and war : Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:02 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Get you, with your scaredy cat project fear talk. Always with the doom and gloom.

We just need to hold our nerve and stay at home watching Netflix in our pyjamas - once the economy sees we’re not going to give in to its unreasonable demands for productivity, it’ll have back to back down. While poverty and eventual starvation will be bad for us, it’ll be just as bad for the economy.

Grow up - please - the state of the economy impact every single person in this country - Covid has impacted a very tiny proportion of it - what would you say is the thing to be protected?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Education, education, education and war : Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:56 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Grow up - please - the state of the economy impact every single person in this country - Covid has impacted a very tiny proportion of it - what would you say is the thing to be protected?

Okay, sorry. I am just very frustrated by us having such a rubbish, clueless, feckless, infantile Prime Minister.

I think the extent of the hazard has to be considered, as well as the number at risk. While tens of thousands of deaths and some quite severe longer-term consequences for some survivors, in a country of tens of millions, would be a tiny proportion in other contexts, this is literally life and death. And to a large extent, the limits on the impact to this point are because we have chosen to take an economic hit. I also think talking about COVID in the past tense isn’t sensible at this point.

On my angry and clumsy Brexit comparison. Nobody likes COVID, whereas 48% of the electorate liked the EU enough to want to remain as part of it. And, in fairness, not that many of the 52% will have imagined we’d pursue the most economically damaging form of Brexit, in the most unprepared and incompetent of ways.

There’s no solution, only choices. I just feel somewhat appalled at hearing Boris ‘f*** business’ Johnson saying we need to get the country back to work, like he gives half a poop about anything other than his own overweening and self-defeating ambition.

Re: Education, education, education and war : Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:52 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Okay, sorry. I am just very frustrated by us having such a rubbish, clueless, feckless, infantile Prime Minister.

I think the extent of the hazard has to be considered, as well as the number at risk. While tens of thousands of deaths and some quite severe longer-term consequences for some survivors, in a country of tens of millions, would be a tiny proportion in other contexts, this is literally life and death. And to a large extent, the limits on the impact to this point are because we have chosen to take an economic hit. I also think talking about COVID in the past tense isn’t sensible at this point.

On my angry and clumsy Brexit comparison. Nobody likes COVID, whereas 48% of the electorate liked the EU enough to want to remain as part of it. And, in fairness, not that many of the 52% will have imagined we’d pursue the most economically damaging form of Brexit, in the most unprepared and incompetent of ways.

There’s no solution, only choices. I just feel somewhat appalled at hearing Boris ‘f*** business’ Johnson saying we need to get the country back to work, like he gives half a poop about anything other than his own overweening and self-defeating ambition.

I agree with you about some of the government especially Boris - there are good ministers: Shapps, Sunek, Gibb, Gove, Lewis to name a few. The leadership is terrible.

Seasonal flu kills thousands every year - it is no surprise the excess deaths have fallen below the seasonal average which suggests many of those that have died of COVID would have died anyway just 2/3 months later. We don't close the economy down despite the impact of seasonal flu. For the vast majority people who get this virus it isn't a matter of life and death - especially amongst the young. I would agree this virus will be with us a long time - perhaps if we were more proactive in dealing with it rather than running scared we would improve our chances of returning to normality.

Brexit really upsets you - is that your lefty superior attitude and that you know best - who could any sane person vote to leave when in your mind being a big contributor with no influence e.g. cuckold is a preferable position. You can see from the negotiations what the EU want - a veto over our own laws and open season in our waters? Perhaps you need to be more objective about Brexit and why all those idiots (sic) didn't bow down to your superior knowledge and Nostradamus-like insight into the next few years?

Boris needs a return to the status quo - and quick - and he needs to start making good decisions

Re: Education, education, education and war : Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:27 am  

At the moment coronavirus is still baffling everyone, latest spanner in the works on today’s bbc web site by medical correspondent is the coronavirus test is testing positive for people who had the virus weeks ago and yet are fit and healthy. The majority of the medical experts can’t agree. Example, Sweden seems to have managed reasonable well without a draconian lock down. Read the other day one medical expert claiming the peak of coronavirus had passed as we went into lockdown. Personally only know of one person who has had it, pal of mine 72 years old quite fit Suffered for 5 days, then another 5 days to recover without any problems. Nobody in his family or friends who were in contact with him myself included contacted the virus.

Re: Education, education, education and war : Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:56 am  

Brexit is the unknown so I would tone down your positivity until the full impact is felt. I note you say Boris needs to start making good decisions, if you think he is capable of this then I must also reject your optimism that he will or has when it comes to Brexit.
We agreed a deal with the EU signed by May and passed in Parliament, it is this Boris is trying to change including doubling the fish quota limits. I sense that with Cummins doing the guiding a no deal Brexit is the preferred option. We do not have long now before we see the frictionless trade through Nth Ireland Boris promised and the smooth operations at Dover with the expert pre planning put in place by Gove.
I can see many months of chaos which they will blame on the EU let’s see who is correct and let’s see who suffers the most us or the much larger EU.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Education, education, education and war : Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:29 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Brexit really upsets you - is that your lefty superior attitude and that you know best -

Yes, it is. I’m not proud of that... but at this point I’m not hugely embarrassed either.

I’m much more upset at Boris Johnson and Michael Gove failing to face up to the hard choices Brexit demands, than Brexit itself.

Sal Paradise wrote:

who could any sane person vote to leave when in your mind being a big contributor with no influence e.g. cuckold is a preferable position. You can see from the negotiations what the EU want - a veto over our own laws and open season in our waters? Perhaps you need to be more objective about Brexit and why all those idiots (sic) didn't bow down to your superior knowledge and Nostradamus-like insight into the next few years?

Boris needs a return to the status quo - and quick - and he needs to start making good decisions

I could see from well before the negotiations what the EU wanted, they have been very open about it, and that Brexit couldn’t therefore be as advertised.

A lot of people are just tired of the current system at a number of levels. Politics has prioritised floating voters in swing seats, leaving a lot people’s views neglected. I understand and share much of the anger and frustration, their desire for change. I can understand a preference for sovereignty to reside (even) more at the national level and the impacts of immigration on the labour market, both positive and negative. Maybe this was needed as some sort of national breakdown, identity crisis, pressure valve, post-empire, post-deindustrialisation, post-financial crash and austerity slate cleaner. Fingers crossed, because there are other possibilities that scare the poop out of me.