[Durham Giant]

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:21 am  

BobbyD wrote:

The rocket attacks aren't achieving anything though, they don't seem to be killing any great numbers and Israel is still land grabbing and killing Palestinians in huge numbers. The end to this latest ceasefire was interesting, usually there's an immediate start to hostilities on both sides so it's hard to pinpoint who actually struck first. This time Israel didn't do anything and let Hamas fire away for a bit before relaunching, just to prove a point.

The problem seems to be that no-one really seems to give much of a toss about what's happening, apart from the Grauniad reading, professional morally outraged.

To a large extent i agree BUT see my last post on the link with Radicalising muslims.

Secondly when the Palestinians were represented by the PLO who had recognised Israel the Israelis showed absolutely no commitment to negotiating.
!/ At no point did they stop building settlements
2/ They were clear they would not negotiate until they had pretty much taken over jerusalem.

It was the weakness of the PLO through negotiation to achieve absolutely ANYTHING that led Hamas being seen as an alternative.
What they did want was the PLO to wipe out Hamas. THe PLO were happy to do this in return for tangible agreements but they were not forthcoming so the PLO did not take on Hamas.

Israels policy is clear to anyone who wants to see it. That is to force the Palestinians into extremism and then use that as an excuse to do whatever they want in the occupied territories.

Unfortunately the alternative for the Palestinians is to turn back to the PLO who Israel treats with contempt and for them to do whatever they want in the occupied territories.

If you are a Palestinian you are in a no win situation. The only difference is that when people are so oppressed as the Palestinians are you often hold on to the one thing that makes some sense which is resistance.
Firing a few rockets into Israel or killng 60 odd Israeli soldiers is seen as something

Hamas is not the solution, moderate palestinians are not the solution as long as America and Britain et al want the problem to persist and do nothing to solve the problem they created.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:28 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

If you are a Palestinian you are in a no win situation. The only difference is that when people are so oppressed as the Palestinians are you often hold on to the one thing that makes some sense which is resistance.
Firing a few rockets into Israel or killng 60 odd Israeli soldiers is seen as something

Hamas is not the solution, moderate palestinians are not the solution as long as America and Britain et al want the problem to persist and do nothing to solve the problem they created.

It's seen as the only thing. Which is the problem. If there's anyone calm enough to stop and think about the way forward they're drowned out by the "take to the streets and fire guns in the air brigade". It's a concept that's alien to us, as Brits.

While Hamas continue to fire rockets it gives an excuse for the USA, UK and others to turn a blind eye. We are where we are, and unless someone is going to give Hamas bigger, more deadly weapons it's where we'll continue to be.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:59 pm  

Sometimes I think about this situation and say to myself.......put the Palestinians and Israelis somewhere isolated and let them bomb the hell out of each other once and for all and get it all finished with but, obviously, this cannot be done.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:52 pm  

Dead Man Walking wrote:

Sometimes I think about this situation and say to myself.......put the Palestinians and Israelis somewhere isolated and let them bomb the hell out of each other once and for all and get it all finished with but, obviously, this cannot be done.

Israeli government v Hamas is a better option.

There are plenty of decent, innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in the pub fight mentality of the two above. Let THEM fight it out and let the people get on with their lives.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:38 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Israeli government v Hamas is a better option.

There are plenty of decent, innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught up in the pub fight mentality of the two above. Let THEM fight it out and let the people get on with their lives.

Time was, albeit a few thousand years ago, when that's exactly what happened.

Let the Knesset and Hamas meet on some open field somewhere and duke it out until one gives in or they manage to kill each other

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:33 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Time was, albeit a few thousand years ago, when that's exactly what happened.

Let the Knesset and Hamas meet on some open field somewhere and duke it out until one gives in or they manage to kill each other

I have a feeling that both sides would call their representatives traitors. Therefore, either you'd need a rematch, then another rematch, or both dukestars, would be condemned by higher powers who never had boxing lessons.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:55 am  

Lovesauce wrote:

I have a feeling that both sides would call their representatives traitors. Therefore, either you'd need a rematch, then another rematch, or both dukestars, would be condemned by higher powers who never had boxing lessons.

I'm not talking about the protagonists each nominating a champion to fight on their behalf here.

Just like a 1970s football rumble, anyone with a beef should rock up and fight. If after the scrap, they still have an argument, then they should turn up at the same time next week and have another go.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:42 am  

cod'ead wrote:

I'm not talking about the protagonists each nominating a champion to fight on their behalf here.

Just like a 1970s football rumble, anyone with a beef should rock up and fight. If after the scrap, they still have an argument, then they should turn up at the same time next week and have another go.

It's funny, I was discussing this with the missus and my conclusion was that the leaders play paintball. They would be more inclined to turn up and take part, what without the fear of actual bodily harm (save for a few welts), and they get to do their shooting thing at each other while banging their chests with their fists. Civilians from both sides can sit and watch sharing popcorn. After a few rounds of paintball, I'm sure they would come to a less painful solution to their issues!

Afterwards, while they are nursing their sores, they can then contemplate how much more painful it would have been if it was real guns and live ammunition.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:00 pm  

One of the main reasons I can no longer be bothered indulging not just this message board but all others is the way furious discussion can pop into existence and then expand like a virgin universe, with everyone remonstrating with the kind of certainty usually associated with a FOX News mouthpiece or those handful of academics judged "respected authority" without anyone first ... say ... bothering to investigate which Israeli "peace settlement" conditions Hamas has refused to accept.

Although, it would then be impossible NOT TO think about that which has been understood by EVERYONE since the very beginning and yet must always remain unspeakable.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:13 am  

Mugwump wrote:

One of the main reasons I can no longer be bothered indulging not just this message board but all others is the way furious discussion can pop into existence and then expand like a virgin universe, with everyone remonstrating with the kind of certainty usually associated with a FOX News mouthpiece or those handful of academics judged "respected authority" without anyone first ... say ... bothering to investigate which Israeli "peace settlement" conditions Hamas has refused to accept.

Although, it would then be impossible NOT TO think about that which has been understood by EVERYONE since the very beginning and yet must always remain unspeakable.

All of which is caused by the dominance of rolling news snippets on TV and radio and news opinions in printed media - and our total acquiescence to this method of presenting opinion and propaganda as "official news" - 'twas always thus of course but is even moreso today when you don't even need to make an effort to watch or listen to "news", its on your phone in handy bite sized chunks or rolling across the bottom of your TV set while you eat breakfast.

What they say is what we digest, regardless of who is feeding them the stories.