Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:36 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

How do economies like Germany many to have such a strong manufacturing base?

I think that they have valued some of their traditional industries and their government has a strategic plan on how to rune their ecconomy.
We on the other hand have smashed our traditional industries and sold off anything and everything to the highest bidder, leaving everything to "the markets".
Privatising many of our primary assets, for a short term windfall, was not the best idea. Not only has this meant allowing all of the profits to go overseas and left the public vulnerable to swingeing increases in prices, which wouldn't have been tolerated under public ownership, we are all now at the mercy of others for our key utilities.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:36 am  

silver2 wrote:

Firstly, they didnt have to undergo the vandalism of Thatcher, secondly Enginners are highly respected and finally, apprenticeship training is valued as much as a university based education.

I agree with your second point unfortunately we are a service-based economy where academic knowledge is important in progressing these businesses.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:10 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

we are a service-based economy

You've just answered your own question... "How do economies like Germany many to have such a strong manufacturing base?"

Instead of making physical things and doing proper graft, the majority of us sit at computers, send emails, and answer phones for a living.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:26 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: How do economies like Germany many to have such a strong manufacturing base? You would have thought that the red tape imposed on them by Brussels bureaucrats would have strangled their industries What's also interesting is that they face higher tax rates in Germany too: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... stralia-us "Basic rates of tax are around the same as in Britain (ranging from 19% to a top rate of 45%), but workers have to pay an extra 10% for state pensions, 8% for health, 1.5% for unemployment cover and 1% for care insurance. That all adds up to a lot more than Britain’s 12% national insurance but, like France, Germany’s public services and welfare payouts are regarded as far superior." "The big shock for British taxpayers is the country’s church tax, which is 8% or 9% of income tax paid, depending on which part of Germany you live in. Under German law, anyone who has been baptised is automatically a member of the church and obliged to pay the tax, irrespective of their beliefs or whether they attend church services. Individuals can formally renounce their church membership and stop paying the tax, but they may risk losing access to some of the country’s best schools and childcare facilities." Surely what you would expect is that with those tax rates the wealth creators would simply take their wealth elsewhere to somewhere like the UK where the state and church are not confiscating it to pay for "superior welfare hand outs".

Sal Paradise wrote: How do economies like Germany many to have such a strong manufacturing base? You would have thought that the red tape imposed on them by Brussels bureaucrats would have strangled their industries What's also interesting is that they face higher tax rates in Germany too: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... stralia-us "Basic rates of tax are around the same as in Britain (ranging from 19% to a top rate of 45%), but workers have to pay an extra 10% for state pensions, 8% for health, 1.5% for unemployment cover and 1% for care insurance. That all adds up to a lot more than Britain’s 12% national insurance but, like France, Germany’s public services and welfare payouts are regarded as far superior." "The big shock for British taxpayers is the country’s church tax, which is 8% or 9% of income tax paid, depending on which part of Germany you live in. Under German law, anyone who has been baptised is automatically a member of the church and obliged to pay the tax, irrespective of their beliefs or whether they attend church services. Individuals can formally renounce their church membership and stop paying the tax, but they may risk losing access to some of the country’s best schools and childcare facilities." Surely what you would expect is that with those tax rates the wealth creators would simply take their wealth elsewhere to somewhere like the UK where the state and church are not confiscating it to pay for "superior welfare hand outs".

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:52 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

You've just answered your own question... "How do economies like Germany many to have such a strong manufacturing base?"

Instead of making physical things and doing proper graft, the majority of us sit at computers, send emails, and answer phones for a living.

The question was we cannot compete with low cost manufacturing - my question was how can Germany manage it given the EU is keen to ensure we don't become a low cost economy and undercut the rest of the EU?

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:32 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The question was we cannot compete with low cost manufacturing - my question was how can Germany manage it given the EU is keen to ensure we don't become a low cost economy and undercut the rest of the EU?

Simple. Plenty of people are prepared to pay for quality. Germany don't need to compete with economies churning out cheap crap, because they're not making cheap crap. There is a huge amount of people who don't subscribe to the cheapest is best, race to the bottom.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:18 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

Simple. Plenty of people are prepared to pay for quality. Germany don't need to compete with economies churning out cheap crap, because they're not making cheap crap. There is a huge amount of people who don't subscribe to the cheapest is best, race to the bottom.

Agreed - but we produce high quality niche products - my question was why can't we in the UK replicate what is happening in Germany in respect of manufacturing. This was countered by saying it has all gone to China? My point was that we never had the quality of management to drive the sector forward.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:46 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Agreed - but we produce high quality niche products - my question was why can't we in the UK replicate what is happening in Germany in respect of manufacturing. This was countered by saying it has all gone to China? My point was that we never had the quality of management to drive the sector forward.

Too many successive governments who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Always selling the promise of cheaper stuff to the masses.

When 'true patriot' Jacob Rees-Mogg was selling his vision of a 'cheap shoes' Brexit, where do you think these shoes were going to come from? The traditional makers in Northampton, or the sweat shops in Bangladesh?

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:33 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Agreed - but we produce high quality niche products - my question was why can't we in the UK replicate what is happening in Germany in respect of manufacturing. This was countered by saying it has all gone to China? My point was that we never had the quality of management to drive the sector forward.

We didn't get millions of pounds of inward investment after starting two world wars.

[Mild Rover]

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:09 pm  

IR80 wrote:

We didn't get millions of pounds of inward investment after starting two world wars.

Do you mean the Marshall plan? The UK got more than twice as much money in loans and grants as West Germany.

I suspect/speculate that West Germany and Japan benefitted more from (enforced) minimal military spending.