Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:19 am  

Mintball wrote:

Deregulation of banking; opening up of and encouraging cheap credit; destruction of industry and move to 'service' economy; bar on social housing to boost the housing market ...

Recognise these?

They're the foundations of the current crisis.

All the Maggieites either don't know, have forgotten or applaud these things.

And that is without mentioning the rise of MRSA (a direct consequence of privatisation) and old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.

No you're not getting it. 1 historian said Thatcher was good at implementing her policies, so she must have been awesome. That's how it works here in the real world.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:24 am  

Him wrote:

No you're not getting it. 1 historian said Thatcher was good at implementing her policies, so she must have been awesome. That's how it works here in the real world.

Oh, she was very good at implementing her policies.

So was Adolf.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:31 am  

Mintball wrote:

Oh, she was very good at implementing her policies.

So was Adolf.

True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:35 am  

Him wrote:

True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.

Ah, but some polls are more equal than others.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 am  

Ajw71 is making a classic error of logic.

I have already pointed out that the majority of voters in General Elections (which is a large sample across all sections of society, all on the same day) repeatedly voted against Margaret Thatcher.
Even when she was "popular" she was unpopular with the majority.

There are probably polls out there about who was the worst Prime Minister ... and I'd put money on the witch being top of that one.
I am not going to look for such a poll because it would probably have as many failings as the ones that Ajw71 has mentioned.... and prove nothing.

I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:11 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I lived through the three day week when electricity was rationed due to the miners strike of 1972, I also lived through the Callaghan/Healey debacle when rubbish didn't get emptied, bodies didn't get buried and top rate tax was 83% and basic rate was 33% and the IMF were required to Healey out of the crap.

So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:51 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

So did I...

Brings back memories of the paraffin lamps.

El Barbudo wrote:

I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.

Old Rupert helped her with the union bit. I think it's a fair bet that it is not a coincidence that the media company that banned independent trades unions and insisted on an in-house staff association is also the one where sustained and widespread culture of criminal behaviour when it came to the garnering of 'news'.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:44 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.

She never lost an election

She was sacked by her own staff before she ever did that - and then the Labour Party contrived to get them re-elected for yet another term in 92, a condemnation of the flavour of politicians available in '92.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:47 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.

Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?

Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.

As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?

Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.

As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!

Are you enjoying the current crisis, Sal?

Do you think it was utterly unavoidable, and therefore the government that laid the foundations for it (as outlined above) should be applauded?

And apart from vilifying anyone on benefits, what do you suggest the unemployed that you see as inevitable should actually do?

As for "unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!" – can you explain how you would have brought the cost of living down to levels that would have allowed wages to be cut in order to 'compete' on pay with other countries with lower costs of living?