Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:30 pm  

I am with those above who pointed out the naivety of Durham Giant's comments.

On the news the other night there was VT evidence of a Hamas rocket being fired from a school. The Israeli's have asked that civilians leave northern Gaza. Those that have chosen to stay are being used as human shields and the media are lapping it up.

Of course war is terrible and innocents always suffer. But Israel has the right under international law to defend themselves when attacked. With their history it is understandable why they return fire with interest.

It is a big mess and it is most unlikely that there will be a peaceful solution. With the rest of the region either in or near a war zone I would not be surprised to see this latest clash develop and Israel send in their ground forces into Gaza and stay there.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:40 pm  

Dally wrote:

Seems a simple situation to me. The international community recognises Israel as a state. People (terrorists), whether you call them Hamas or whoever, attack them and Israel try to crush the attackers. The terrorists are, as I understand it, are funded by oil rich Arab states and that's why they are probably content to let innocent Palestinians get slaughtered. It's about time someone started dealing with the funders.

Do you mean those funders who are friends of the United States?

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:05 pm  

Lovesauce wrote:

Do you mean those funders who are friends of the United States?

If Iran and Qatar are friends of the US, yes.

[Durham Giant]

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:03 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I don't disagree with much of your post but your post suggests that "The East" in general is expecting "The West" to solve the problem.

Why doesn't "The East" do something?

Has "The East" actually asked "the West" to intervene? What is the way to intervene which might stop the killing?

SNIP

Welll Hamas are a terrorist organisation they cannot travel freely anywhere in the western world.

I feel i have evidenced significant examples of war crimes and " terrorism" by Israel.

Maybe if a few leaders in the west were to say that Benyamin Netanyahu Avigdor Lieberman and Benny Gantz were told they were not welcome in the west and could be arrested for poetential war crimes they might stop killing Palestinian kids

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:27 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

Welll Hamas are a terrorist organisation they cannot travel freely anywhere in the western world.

I feel i have evidenced significant examples of war crimes and " terrorism" by Israel.

Maybe if a few leaders in the west were to say that Benyamin Netanyahu Avigdor Lieberman and Benny Gantz were told they were not welcome in the west and could be arrested for poetential war crimes they might stop killing Palestinian kids

Clearly that wouldn't work as Hamas has killed Israeli children despite not being welcome in the West.

According to the UN, since 2000, the ratio of civilian to soldier deaths are roughly similar on both sides.
Israeli deaths - 69% civilian, 31% IDF
Palestinian - 59% civilian, 41% engaged in hostilities.

They're both as bad as each other. They (leaderships & followers) both are intransigent and reliant on the conflict to bolster and maintain their own positions and strengths.

It needs a powerful outside organisation to broker a deal. The only option is the Americans as the UN is too chaotic and toothless.
But the American (and most in the world) political system makes it almost impossible (or at least very difficult) for a US President to broker a deal that simultaneously puts significant pressure on Israel whilst providing the legitimate safeguards they'd want.

[Durham Giant]

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:52 pm  

Him wrote:

Clearly that wouldn't work as Hamas has killed Israeli children despite not being welcome in the West.

According to the UN, since 2000, the ratio of civilian to soldier deaths are roughly similar on both sides.
Israeli deaths - 69% civilian, 31% IDF
Palestinian - 59% civilian, 41% engaged in hostilities.

They're both as bad as each other. They (leaderships & followers) both are intransigent and reliant on the conflict to bolster and maintain their own positions and strengths.

It needs a powerful outside organisation to broker a deal. The only option is the Americans as the UN is too chaotic and toothless.
But the American (and most in the world) political system makes it almost impossible (or at least very difficult) for a US President to broker a deal that simultaneously puts significant pressure on Israel whilst providing the legitimate safeguards they'd want.

What is your source for those stats i cannot find them anywhere.

I would say that after 2005 those stats are completely wrong as Israel moved all of their citizens out of Gaza and built the walls all over the place. You also seem to be linking all the earlier incidents which did not involve Gaza at all such as bombings in jerusalem.

Since 2005 the death tolls have been significantly lopsided in respect of those who have died and those who who have been combatants or civilians.

None of this alters the fact that Hamas is still seen as the agressor and terrorist whilst Israel is the victim and the legitimate force.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:25 am  

I just realised those stats from the UN only went up to 2007.

But there are stats from BTSelem that show a similar rate both from 2000 to now and from more recent periods to now.

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:33 am  

Durham Giant wrote:

Welll Hamas are a terrorist organisation they cannot travel freely anywhere in the western world.

yet in the same breath, Durham Giant wrote:

... Maybe if a few leaders in the west were to say that Benyamin Netanyahu Avigdor Lieberman and Benny Gantz were told they were not welcome in the west and could be arrested for poetential war crimes they might stop killing Palestinian kids

So, removing the ability to "travel freely in the Western world" would be the thing that would stop the bombing. Like it has done with Hamas, you mean?

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:40 am  

Chris28 wrote:

As opposed to say, Israel, who have just ignored a fair number of UN resolutions instead?

Both sides are as bad as each other. Politicians and/or terrorists, but its the innocent that suffer.

Isreal have actually broken 65 UN resolutions since 1950 and faced no punishment
Iraq broke 2 and were bombed to oblivion.

But then I wouldnt expect Saddo to know this given he gets his info from wiki, Sky news and BBC news

#opsavegaza
#gazaunderattack
@yourAnonCentral

Re: Israeli war crimes continue : Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:34 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

Isreal have actually broken 65 UN resolutions since 1950 and faced no punishment
Iraq broke 2 and were bombed to oblivion.

But then I wouldnt expect Saddo to know this given he gets his info from wiki, Sky news and BBC news

#opsavegaza
#gazaunderattack
@yourAnonCentral

I did say they were as bad as each other if you read it properly. Meanwhile, keep following Joey Barton on Twitter and favouriting all his tweets.