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And if it hadn't been for our pesky security and intelligence agencies making a small error in relation to WMD then there'd have been no need for us to go and kill a (c)1,000,000 Iraqi's.

poop happens, I suppose.
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The Reason wrote:
Hi Andy

The Rugby Football League are in the process of reviewing the video that you are referring to. We do not condone behaviour of this nature and have contacted the player’s employer, Hull F.C., who have confirmed that they are dealing with the incident under their club rules.
 
 
Regards,
 
Matthew

McClennan wrote:
You will forgive me if after the Hillsborough failings (not to mention the many other deliberate political lies and cover-ups) if I bare on the side of critical thinking when non-independent reports like this come out. Hillsborough, you may remember, had a similar inquiry that wasn't independent and had a same approach to justice. It took an independent inquiry to unearth the truth and it's also why I want no part of Parliament legislating around the press. I mean, we can't even trust these MPs to be ethical when it comes to expenses but we're supposed to believe they're as honest as our mums when it comes to questionable government policies? There was collusion admitted in this report but we're supposed to believe it was something done off the back of their own inspiration? Come on man.


Could I believe that some members of the MI5, army special units or officers in the now-disbanded Royal Ulster Constabulary acted in this way considering what they faced every day from the IRA and other republican paramilitaries?

Yep.
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Sheldon wrote:
Could I believe that some members of the MI5, army special units or officers in the now-disbanded Royal Ulster Constabulary acted in this way considering what they faced every day from the IRA and other republican paramilitaries?

Yep.


Are you aware of 'Death on the Rock' when the UK govt authorised the assassination of three IRA members in Gilbraltar? That was the year before the Finucane murder and if the govt had to authorise that doesn't it follow that they would also have to authorise something like a collusion killing? I'm not aware of any patterns where the Secret Service have been involved with civilian killings on their own. I am aware of a succession of cover-ups and sneaky establishment tactics though. Again, to get some sort of truth the relatives of the Gibraltar three had to go to the European Court of Human Rights because the govt deliberately mislead the public.
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You don't have to agree with me btw but I don't think I've suggested anything that's a stretch given the previous behaviour of UK govts.
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Tarquin Fuego wrote:
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The Reason wrote:
Hi Andy

The Rugby Football League are in the process of reviewing the video that you are referring to. We do not condone behaviour of this nature and have contacted the player’s employer, Hull F.C., who have confirmed that they are dealing with the incident under their club rules.
 
 
Regards,
 
Matthew

McClennan wrote:
You don't have to agree with me btw but I don't think I've suggested anything that's a stretch given the previous behaviour of UK govts.


I'm not saying it is a stretch, what I was questioning is the op's stance that the report had to be wrong to because he didn't agree with it.
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Not a good week for the British image of justice and fair play, has it?

What with this and paying off the victims of our "deliver a dissident" work on behalf of the Gadaffi regime. Without admission of liability, obviously
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Former secret service operatives such as Ray McGovern, John Stockwell, Phil Agee, Bob Baer (and even the notoriously cryptic Peter Wright of "Spycatcher" fame) have all poured scorn on the "rogue agent" excuse. It's not that spooks aren't encouraged to use their own initiative - far from it. But such people are usually much further up the food chain - giving orders. Footsoldiers, on the other hand, have very little latitude not least because the overwhelming majority of intelligence gathering is procedural, form filling, briefings, de-briefings etc. It's mind-numbing tedium and to take a poop you need half a dozen signatures in triplicate.

I mean, sure, it’s possible that a low-ranking operative was put into a position where he could execute a political target (the political blowback from which would have fallen not on him but his superiors), but is it probable?

As Peter Wright said, senior politicians (such as the PM, Home Secretary etc.) and decision-makers in MI5 & MI6 wouldn’t dream of authorising the assassination of a political figure unless they were protected from being held accountable in a court of law at some point in the future. Orthodox methods of record-keeping are subverted so that those involved always retain plausible deniability.

If the political fallout is too extreme then it’s the easiest thing in the world (as well as the oldest trick in the book) to throw some low-ranking officer to the wolves. Regrettable to be sure. But entirely necessary if we are to maintain order and stability.
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