Re: Depraved Britain : Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:58 pm  

Dally wrote: You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill). In what way has it been dramatic? What is dramatically worse than it was 30 years ago when taking into account technological/demographic changes etc Were drastically fewer people being killed? Drastically fewer people abused? Drastically fewer crimes? I have no intention of buying and reading such a book, since you obviously have read it what statistics does it use to account for a moral decline? How is it measured? How have the methods of recording those statistics changed over decades? Does it take into account population and other changes? Again, I will ask for evidence of such a shocking moral decline in this country.

Dally wrote: You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill). In what way has it been dramatic? What is dramatically worse than it was 30 years ago when taking into account technological/demographic changes etc Were drastically fewer people being killed? Drastically fewer people abused? Drastically fewer crimes? I have no intention of buying and reading such a book, since you obviously have read it what statistics does it use to account for a moral decline? How is it measured? How have the methods of recording those statistics changed over decades? Does it take into account population and other changes? Again, I will ask for evidence of such a shocking moral decline in this country.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:02 am  

Dally wrote: You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill). Just how old are you?

Dally wrote: You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill). Just how old are you?

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:19 am  

Dally wrote: Another example of our sick society: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html Nope, still getting tea and kittens. Best plug in ever.

Dally wrote: Another example of our sick society: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html Nope, still getting tea and kittens. Best plug in ever.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:01 am  

BaldRick wrote:

It's about time we had some happy news . You got any happy news Dally ?

I was waiting for his 'we're all going to die in the solar storm' thread!

Are you not familiar with Dally's work?

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:05 am  

Stand-Offish wrote:

It's only posh people that are depraved.
The rest of us are merely deprived.

I think i'm a bit of both !

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:36 am  

Stand-Offish wrote:

Just how old are you?

He's younger than me.

Reading the synopsis of the book, I'm not surprised that Dally is attracted to the message. Both he and the author seem to live in this fantasy where 30+ years ago we all lived in harmony, through fear that we'd be outed as shirtlifters, divorcees or non-church goers.

Now my memory may have faded somewhat but I can't recollect a time when there were no child abusers, murderers, thieves and assorted vagabonds. The only reason the odd person wasn't thieving from a charity shop in the 1960s/70s was because there were no charity shops to thieve from.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:03 am  

Stand-Offish wrote:

Just how old are you?

Not old enough to have invested the time to learn anything at all about the history of Britain.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:14 am  

cod'ead wrote:

He's younger than me.

Reading the synopsis of the book, I'm not surprised that Dally is attracted to the message. Both he and the author seem to live in this fantasy where 30+ years ago we all lived in harmony, through fear that we'd be outed as shirtlifters, divorcees or non-church goers.

Now my memory may have faded somewhat but I can't recollect a time when there were no child abusers, murderers, thieves and assorted vagabonds. The only reason the odd person wasn't thieving from a charity shop in the 1960s/70s was because there were no charity shops to thieve from.

Spot on.

My parents are as stupid. They have this mad belief that, at some point in the past (I'm convinced it's the 1950s), everything was somehow perfect and that it's all a mess now because of the permissive society.

And yet they know that domestic violence is not new (and not even limited to their own fighting). They know that sexual abuse is not new – as just one example of this, my father, as a clergyman, has found himself dealing with very elderly parishoners whose lives were blighted by abuse that happened before WWII (and see Billy Connolly for another example of this).

My own father admitted to me one day, that he'd lost his virginity when 12 to a 14 year old girl in his Cornish backwater – a village on the edge of Bodmin Moor, with no TV or anything else to spread that permissive filth, in the days shortly after WWII: an admission that reveals how utterly crass his subsequent drive to 'blame' post-1960s life for sex are.

And as I intimated in my previous post, if you know anything about the history of this country, beyond the names and dates of monarchs, you'd know it is utter nonsense to pretend that there was any such halcyon era when nothing impolite ever happened.

18th century, cross-class gangs of young men holding up coaches and then burning them out (car jacking was new?).

Not that long ago, when this sort of subject came up, I posted a raft of links to stuff about gangs across Victorian England.

You could find stuff about looting during the Blitz. You could find things about police no-go areas in cities across the countries (specific examples in London: Borough at the end of the 19th century, Bermondsey in the early 20th century). Read Dickens to see that political corruption existed long ago – look at Hogarth to see the same thing, along with boozy brawling. And on the subject of that boozy brawling, read Virginia Woolf to see that women getting wrecked and then fighting in the street is hardly new either – she wrote of such a thing in a book first published in 1921.

But Dally and his ilk don't care for facts. They'd far rather have the pleasure they seem to derive from their Chicken Licken approach to everything.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:23 am  

Dally wrote:

In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels.

When I was 16 years old in 1972 the brother of one of my class mates kicked to death a railway porter outside a pub in Leeds because the railway porter was rumoured to be gay, or at least he was one of a group of six men from the pub who dragged the porter outside and kicked him to death because he was rumoured to be gay - they all got several years for manslaughter.

When I was 13 years old in 1969 some Leeds City Police officers chased a black African vagrant out of the city centre because he was black and they didn't want him there, he was found dead in the river Aire some days later, it was the first recorded incident of institutional racism from a police force and two officers served time for assault over a long period of time against David Oluwale.

I don't think things have got dramatically worse since then.

Re: Depraved Britain : Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:52 am  

McLaren_Field wrote:

When I was 16 years old in 1972 the brother of one of my class mates kicked to death a railway porter outside a pub in Leeds because the railway porter was rumoured to be gay, or at least he was one of a group of six men from the pub who dragged the porter outside and kicked him to death because he was rumoured to be gay - they all got several years for manslaughter.

When I was 13 years old in 1969 some Leeds City Police officers chased a black African vagrant out of the city centre because he was black and they didn't want him there, he was found dead in the river Aire some days later, it was the first recorded incident of institutional racism from a police force and two officers served time for assault over a long period of time against David Oluwale.

I don't think things have got dramatically worse since then.

Dally would have given the first group medals – and probably the second group too.