Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:00 am  

What do you reckon?
Will the Picts vote for full independence or just enough to be able to decide for themselves how they spend our money?
Does anyone South of Berwick actually care?

Over to you, I'm sure with a little effort we can turn this into the usual left-right polarised debate.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:26 am  

1. Could Scotland survive outside the union in terms of the economy, defence etc?

2. What does Scotland bring to the union that the other nations involved would miss?

3. What does the union really mean, that there is cross-party (Parliamentary, at any rate) consensus that it is worth defending?


Do I care? I don't know – but primarily because I know little about 3 and, as such, have no concrete opinion on it. Perhaps this thread can be an education.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:34 am  

Mintball wrote:

Could Scotland survive economically etc outside the union?

Big question, that.
They'd want to keep "their" oil, of course, but could they afford the £65bn that "we" paid to keep "their" banks viable?

Mintball wrote:

What does Scotland bring to the union that the other nations involved would miss?

A greater size of market and population ... and the bit of clout that comes with that.
e.g. When Cameron vetos something he is not just pulling Middle England out, he's pulling out all 65million of us.
Apart from that I'm stumped.

Mintball wrote:

What does the union really mean, that there is cross-party (Parliamentary, at any rate) consensus that it is worth defending?

The union, at the moment, is a constitutional mess.
In addition to the UK parliament, NI, Wales and Scotland all have their own assemblies/parliament ... but we in England don't.
"They" can meddle with our legislation but "we" can't with a lot of theirs.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am  

I don't get all this "Scotland can't afford it" malarkey.

Ireland manages, Belgium manages, Lichtenstein manages, Luxembourg manages and a lot of a countries a damn sight smaller and poorer than Scotland manage. If they want to leave, that's fine. It's no problem.

We'll soon see how they get on when they either make a success of it, or decide they want to come crawling back.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:49 am  

It is a question for the people of Scotland. If this time around the concensus is to stay in the union by a large margin then what next for the SNP? If the people vote for independance then I am sure the English, Welsh, and Northern Irish will say fond goodbye.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:52 am  

Sadly, try as I might, I can't take Salmond seriously. Whenever i look at him, all I can see is Nursie

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:03 am  

ROBINSON wrote:

I don't get all this "Scotland can't afford it" malarkey.

Ireland manages, Belgium manages, Lichtenstein manages, Luxembourg manages and a lot of a countries a damn sight smaller and poorer than Scotland manage. If they want to leave, that's fine. It's no problem.

We'll soon see how they get on when they either make a success of it, or decide they want to come crawling back.

All the ones you name have the protection of belonging to (ahem) a much, m u c h, MUCH larger union that is a little out of fashion in Little England at the moment, and Salmond says that Scotland would too.
Of course, if they were fully independent, they'd then have to either issue their own currency, continue to tag along using the pound (but with no say in it), or join the Euro.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:46 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

All the ones you name have the protection of belonging to (ahem) a much, m u c h, MUCH larger union that is a little out of fashion in Little England at the moment, and Salmond says that Scotland would too.
Of course, if they were fully independent, they'd then have to either issue their own currency, continue to tag along using the pound (but with no say in it), or join the Euro.

Well, yes obviously.

Hence why I said there's no reason for Scotland to fail if they went it alone. Europe, after all, is great for protecting small nations at the expense of the bigger ones.

Scotland costs England money now, and will continue to do so after they leave us and start sh&gging Europe.

Less devolution, more divorce, with Scotland being the bored housewife who wants to leave her Executive husband and shack up with her Greek waiter boyfriend and his mates.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:55 am  

Am i right Scotland get some benefits that we dont?...free eye tests, prescriptions, university places etc.

Sounds like Salmond wants the perks of being tied to us, but the free will to spend away the rest.

Give them the oil revenue, and send them on their way i say....they will soon want to come back eventually.

Re: Can Salmond net it? : Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:14 pm  

My personal view is that no matter what Salmond may say, he doesn't want complete independence. The Scottish people never voted for a referendum on the subject, it was never id the SNP's manifesto, it was something Salmond threw into a speech four days before the election.

I agree with what Paddy Ashdown said on last night's QT: they want a multi-choice vote, so that they can end up with a dog's breakfast of a non-resolution and muddle on from there.