Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:49 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I think the first thing he needed to do when he started legging it from the car was getting rid of the gun. If he gets rid of the gun and is then tackled straight after then he can loudly should police brutality and racism and hope that none of the cops see him throw the gun over the wall.

He was about 10ft away from the end of the wall when he was shot. After that there was the clear field and pathways. I think the clear run to the field is a better target to run to that looking to vault the railings, especially as think both Duggan and the cops will have been getting out of their vehicles before they had even stopped.

Did he not lob the gun as soon as he got out of the taxi?
His arms going up and down as he ran wouldn't have helped his cause.
So I can see why he got shot.

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:03 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/ Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/ Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:09 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote: Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in. This shows where the casings and radio were. http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

Stand-Offish wrote: Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in. This shows where the casings and radio were. http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:28 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

Did he not lob the gun as soon as he got out of the taxi?
His arms going up and down as he ran wouldn't have helped his cause.
So I can see why he got shot.

From what I've read I don't think anyone really knows how the gun got there.

I don't think it makes any sense for Duggan to throw the gun straight from the car. I think the gun being thrown would be easy to spot, then if the police catching him they'll have the gun and him and he's off to jail.

I think a doctor testified that Duggan couldn't have thrown it after he'd been shot. I know he's a doc and I'm a nobody with no experience in this field whatsoever, but I'd question how he can determine whether someone who has been shot can or can't throw something they desperately wouldn't want to get caught holding.

For the there's the possibility of him being knocked back with the impact of the bullet and releasing it.

But for me the most realistic option is for Duggan to start running as quick as possible while tossing the gun as quickly and discretely as possible.

The best case scenario for the cop would have been the gun still in his possession. The worst case would have been no gun recovered at all. Even if that were the case though, I still feel the officer is justified in shooting if Duggan is starting to do a runner and looks like he's going for a gun.

One piece of information I do want to find is where Duggan's phone was discovered. A witness was quoted as saying she say Duggan with his phone in his hand. If Duggan is right handed and his phone was near his right hand, that would be eyebrow raising for me.

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:40 pm  

2 police officers get off in america for beating a homeless man to death

Regards

King James

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:45 pm  

The jury found that the two Fullerton police officers, Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, had acted in line with their training and their professional right to use force when they beat Kelly Thomas, a homeless man diagnosed as a schizophrenic, during a police altercation on a summer night in 2011.

Only in america. The before and after photos of the poor man they beat to death are shocking.

Regards

King james

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:55 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

2 police officers get off in america for beating a homeless man to death

Regards

King James

The world would definitely be a better place if they just did away with the court process and just allowed twitter or American Idol type phone voting, wouldn't it?

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:57 pm  

Mintball wrote: In terms of some of what has been discussed, this is interesting. The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police is to be prosecuted for safety breaches after an unarmed man was shot dead in Cheshire. Seems like a sensible decision to test the robustness of the police reaction to incidents and their procedures for using weapons, its also correct that the officer who did the shooting has not been prosecuted because he acted in line with national guidelines but mainly in line with his briefing - if you tell an armed officer that they will be facing a person is is armed or is known to carry firearms then you are putting him on high alert and the safety of everyone, police and bystanders is in his hands, if he fails to act then its his job at risk.

Mintball wrote: In terms of some of what has been discussed, this is interesting. The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police is to be prosecuted for safety breaches after an unarmed man was shot dead in Cheshire. Seems like a sensible decision to test the robustness of the police reaction to incidents and their procedures for using weapons, its also correct that the officer who did the shooting has not been prosecuted because he acted in line with national guidelines but mainly in line with his briefing - if you tell an armed officer that they will be facing a person is is armed or is known to carry firearms then you are putting him on high alert and the safety of everyone, police and bystanders is in his hands, if he fails to act then its his job at risk.

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:02 pm  

On the videotape, Ramos is seen strapping gloves on his hands, balling them into fists in Thomas's face and telling Thomas, whom he knew from previous encounters: "You see these fists? They are getting ready to f--- you up."

I think that's on page 45 of the police training manual.

Re: The Mark Duggan verdict. : Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:04 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Seems like a sensible decision to test the robustness of the police reaction to incidents and their procedures for using weapons, its also correct that the officer who did the shooting has not been prosecuted because he acted in line with national guidelines but mainly in line with his briefing - if you tell an armed officer that they will be facing a person is is armed or is known to carry firearms then you are putting him on high alert and the safety of everyone, police and bystanders is in his hands, if he fails to act then its his job at risk.

Agreed.