Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 7:40 am  

I think the difference in how you and I see this matter Jim, is what you describe as a bout of petulance, I see as holding people accountable for their mistakes in a team sport. Shouting in sport is not necessarily the same as doing it in an office environment for example. Team Sportspeople are highly motivated by not letting their mates down, and without holding them to account when they do, you see a slip into accepted mediocrity like we are witnessing at Leeds, Hull FC and Castleford right now. All three clubs are capable of much better performances, and when the players (and coaches) are held to account they are more likely to improve the performance, this is simple management (something I have a lot of experience of).

Happy to debate, it's always respectful between us.

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 8:11 am  

jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out

its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 8:49 am  

tad rhino wrote:

jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out

its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it

There appears to be no accountability at the club and therefore responsibility lower down the ladder becomes almost non existent , our main man Mr Hetherington is deluded as in his recent interview saying the organisation is in a good position(not sure he will be saying that next year when season ticket sales are down and hospitality is not sold out ) and in my opinion our coach is tactically clueless and could not motivate a set of School kids

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 9:21 am  

With all due respect to Jim, I'm starting to think he might just be trolling on here and laughing his ass off at home as everyone gets reeled in.

Other recent examples off top of my head include:
Louis Roberts a back row
TNW too small to be a prop
Riley Lumb too thin for SL

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 10:17 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

I think the difference in how you and I see this matter Jim, is what you describe as a bout of petulance, I see as holding people accountable for their mistakes in a team sport. Shouting in sport is not necessarily the same as doing it in an office environment for example. Team Sportspeople are highly motivated by not letting their mates down, and without holding them to account when they do, you see a slip into accepted mediocrity like we are witnessing at Leeds, Hull FC and Castleford right now. All three clubs are capable of much better performances, and when the players (and coaches) are held to account they are more likely to improve the performance, this is simple management (something I have a lot of experience of).

Happy to debate, it's always respectful between us.

Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I'm sure there are critical situations where some bullying type approach is effective and necessary (a game situation is a critical one). However the evidence is that long-term relationships are not built and supported this way, it's a tactical approach at best. You're also making a lot of assumptions in the above para, which we won't be able to debate on this forum!

I would agree that there are instances where a bit of friction and aggression between team mates might be necessary and healthy and natural, but I'd disagree that this is the secret sauce missing which would make Leeds more successful. Performance is a multi-factoral output of course.

Pretty much all the examples of past successful teams with this kind of internal friction are using examples of worldy players who have the platform and credibility to behave that way. In most cases if you try to hold an alpha male to account, you're more likely to get a smack in the mouth than sustainably increased performance. In many cases this behaviour will actually lead to breakdown of trust and introduce team dysfunction... but yeah this forum probably not the best place!

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 10:30 am  

tad rhino wrote:

jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out

its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it

You're not the only person who has ever worked in a high-intensity environment where performance is demanded Tads, sports or not.

No responsibility? What is your evidence for that view? Frawley literally got dropped last game due to performance at Hull. Olpherts was shipped on before his contract ended. Loads of dead wood has been pruned out since RS came in, and I think he was right in just about every case - those players are either in Championship now or in teams at the bottom of the table (funnily enough, about where we were when they played for us...). Higher up responsibility: well we will see about RS, and GH seemed to admit himself recently that the "transition" wasn't handled well, but he seems too comfortable to me.

I don't see a side that doesn't care, we probably aren't going to agree here and I know I'm in the minority on here, fair enough. I'm sure there are some robust and honest conversations happening behind closed doors. I think the players and coaches care tremendously.

Where we're at is a main squad which probably isn't good enough to win super league anyway, hammered by injuries again (you can call that an excuse if you like, but I disagree, I would call it a reason), and with a relatively inexperienced head coach who is struggling to convince. Is it the squad? Is it the injuries? Is it the coach? Probably all three but to what degrees, who knows.

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 10:35 am  

FGB wrote:

With all due respect to Jim, I'm starting to think he might just be trolling on here and laughing his ass off at home as everyone gets reeled in.

Other recent examples off top of my head include:
Louis Roberts a back row
TNW too small to be a prop
Riley Lumb too thin for SL

I mean I do have the odd smile but not trolling my friend.

Roberts is not a winger, he is a centre who has been asked to cover wing as least bad option. If anyone actually reads what I write, I said I could see Roberts developing as a back row - I don't see the pace or evasion required for a SL centre in him yet. He's like 22 we'll see - he may end up in Championship yet.

TNW - he's also young and will fill out, but right now he is too small for a regular SL prop. You think he's going to give us the go-forward and domination down the middle at this stage in his development? He should get some game time on the bench, he is a good prospect for the future.

Riley Lumb has literally just torn his hamstring half off trying to run through grown men. Yes, he is too lightly built QED. He will get stronger and as he does, he is a great prospect for the future, I like him lots.

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 11:50 am  

any excuses under the sun.
look at me, I accept mediocrity.welcome to more seasons of crap

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 12:35 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

any excuses under the sun.
look at me, I accept mediocrity.welcome to more seasons of crap

We've been rubbish pretty much since 2017 mate, I don't know why mediocrity is suddenly a big thing!

Supporting Leeds is a bit like rolling in a field of mediocrity cat nip.

We will be good again one day, just not seemingly this year. It could be worse, we could be Hull (although that was kindof us once or twice...).

Plenty to get excited about going forward whoever is coach. I think we have a clutch of Super League players coming through the system finally.

Re: RD 11 | Catalan Dragons (A) : Mon May 13, 2024 2:01 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

We've been rubbish pretty much since 2017 mate, I don't know why mediocrity is suddenly a big thing!

Supporting Leeds is a bit like rolling in a field of mediocrity cat nip.

We will be good again one day, just not seemingly this year. It could be worse, we could be Hull (although that was kindof us once or twice...).

Plenty to get excited about going forward whoever is coach. I think we have a clutch of Super League players coming through the system finally.

Mediocrity is not acceptable for Leeds rhinos , probably one of the most iconic clubs in the league. The best ground in super league, with the best corporate and off field activities in the league. Not forgetting one of the biggest following in the league. Clutch of players coming through, not all of the stars in the youth set make the grade. It’s a big step up and some can’t handle it, so it would be a gamble to rely on that aspect of player recruitment.
Also I wouldn’t trust Smith to recognise any potential talent, looking at his track record so far. Hull should be a salutary warning as to what happens when you get several seasons of gentle decline. The decline stops and the club implodes. Looking over at Wigan ,Peet states he may be only looking at maybe one or two additions for next season as he has got the squad he wants. That shows what can be achieved with correct players recruitment and sound management. I was going to say wigan are one of our main rivals. Unfortunately they aren’t , seeing as we seemed to have fallen into regular mid table activities.